Paul Byrne - The Consumer Health Revolution: Why GLP-1s, Biometrics, and AI Are Finally Converging

Hey friends, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness and wellness industry podcast for over five years and running. I'm your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the honor of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. If you like the show, we'd love it if you took three minutes of your day to leave us a nice supporter review wherever you consume your podcast. If you're interested in staying up to date with the future of fitness, go to future of fitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now on to the show. Now I've seen this movie before, but here's the difference. They've opened up a US headquarters in Boston because they understand that the American market deserves dedicated, localized support. After digging into the platform, one benefit especially stood out. They are simplifying the nightmare that keeps business owners up at night migrations. These guys were able to migrate one mega client with more than 250 locations in six different countries in just 20 days between two payment runs, no disrupting operations, no member loss, one seamless operation that simply works. Now, if you have ever switched platforms, you know how terrifying that process can be and how truly impressive that feat is. At a high level, here's their secret sauce. They give the power back to the operator. Instead of forcing you into their closed ecosystem, their Perfect Gym Marketplace connects with over 120 integration partners. So want to use your own app, your preferred payment processor, class pass for booking? No problem. Whether you're running a single studio or managing a multi-location enterprise, Perfect Gym was built from the ground up for multi-club operations. They've invested a ton into this platform, and now they're bringing that European engineering excellence to America. The migration experts have arrived. Check out perfectgym.com where enterprise level sophistication meets operator freedom. This is where operators, founders, and health tech leaders go to get a grip on what's next. AI integration, wearable tech that drives retention, GLP1 market impact, longevity strategies, and so much more. All the stuff that is reshaping our industry right now. Three days of real conversations with people building this space, not just talking about it. You'll leave with partnerships and playbooks you can actually use. My listeners get 10% off with the code FOF10. Link in the show notes. I hope to see you there. All right, here we go. Paul Byrne, welcome back to the future of fitness, my friend. How you been?

Good, man. Very good. Very well. I should say my English teacher is slapping me upside the head right now, but very well. Good to see you again. Happy New Year.

Happy New Year. You're my uh officially my first recording of 2026. You know, you you you I'll give you a little time to introduce yourself or reintroduce yourself, but this report that you sent me, um, you know, I was just joking with you, uh, consumer health revolution. Uh you guys put out really good reports. I like reviewing them. Thank you. And it's like all of my favorite things, right? All this longevity and health science and wearables and all this like stuff I've been talking about on this show forever. You and I have been talking about for a very long time. And as you said, it's like it all seems to be kind of coming together. Finally, and uh it's exciting. It's exciting. It is. So, Paul, before we get into all that, um give us a quick reintroduction, who you are, what you do, and then we'll uh we'll take it from there.

Sure, sure. Paul Byrne, longtime industry vet, got into the business in 1982. Many of the listeners probably weren't alive at that point. And um, I think I've been a fairly significant contributor to the to the fitness landscape. Started the first chain of exercise equipment stores in the nation. Started with a very young pre-corps one product company, $20 million, and grew it to almost $500 million uh last 15 years as president, introduced many, many, many innovative products, most noteworthy of which would be the elliptical trainer, probably the most breakthrough category ever. Retired and joined uh Harrison Co., started by Bill Harrison, investment banker, who represented us when we sold pre-corps to Honor Sports way back when in the early early thousands. And when I retired, he reached out and said, Hey, you want to enjoy my investment banking firm? So I don't know. What do I know about investment banking? He goes, Yeah, probably nothing, but you know the industry and you know business and it'll do well. So what we do is typically represent companies, family-owned businesses, anywhere from twenty to a billion dollars, mostly in what we call the better for you space, so fitness broadly or wellness broadly defined. And then typically sell these privately owned companies to other companies, pe uh private equity, whatever. But that is that is the bulk of the business. I'm a partner in that firm. And it's enjoyable because we we help people realize their dreams, right? Guys that started a company from nothing and sell it and get family generational wealth. It's uh it's a it's a feel-good position.

Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. And and from when I know about you and and the the reactions to our interviews when we publish them, people really respect you, they really like your insights, they value them. Uh because they go, they they're just well received. You know, people people talk about them and bring me, you know, pull me aside. Well, I I pay a lot for that.

Yeah.

Well, teach me that. Teach me how to pay for it for that.

There you go. So I have a chip bot that takes care of that.

The report you got here, so there's so many things to start at. But from my perspective, I guess over the last this is my ninth year of doing this podcast. I I remember the point in time when I was a gym owner and one of my clients came to me with a Fitbit. It was like, hey, what do I do with this? And I was like, I have no idea. Maybe I should get one. Right. And then, you know, that was right after the the iPhone came out. And uh all these, all these things. I just remember all these really early days, and and I remember the first aura ring, and I remember, you know, when I got my first garment and all these different, like I have, you know, a treasure trest of of old wearables that were in and the last like two years, it seems to me, and that everything's accelerated to the point where you know, we're gonna get into this, like the costs have gone down. It's being seen more mass consumption of of just technologies and longevities and GLP ones and all the stuff that's going on that used to be just for a very minute group of people who had a lot of money or were interested in it, right? But it's it's different now. So, what was the impetus for this report that you wrote here? Why did you decide on this topic?

Well, it just observationally, right? You see everything coming down the cost curve so in so inexpensive. Let's start with GLP1s, which are is one of the primary drivers of this big shift. When GLP ones first came out, they were only accessible to a small percentage of people who actually wanted to pay for them. Maybe your your healthcare provider took care of it. Now those costs have come down. You can you can get GLP ones for probably under $200 a month. So they're broadly accessible and they have just a mega impact on health, right? It's not just it's just not weight loss and diabetes, but it's your cardiovascular health. All you know, all the above. And it's driving a whole bunch of other industries, right? So you have people at GLP 1s, they're losing rate rapidly. Oops, what do we need? Oh, I need protein supplementation, and I need to go to the gym and lift weights. So GLP1s themselves have really driven a big part of that shift. And then you put on top of it, you know, your your your aura ring, your wearable, and now you have all this wonderful data that could be mined over time. So those are the to me, those are like the two big drivers of this big change in health behavior coupled with the ability to gather data. And oh, by the way, number three, stick it in my Claude or Chat GPT or whatever. That becomes your primary care doctor, basically. And now here's the beauty you're tracking that shift now for the rest of your life, right? So this is an ongoing health care management system that's been developed like it's seemingly overnight. But you and I both know it's taken years, but it seems like it all of a sudden it's here.

The um we're gonna get into all these particular pieces individually. I had Rob Wolf on this podcast recently. Um, it'll come out a few episodes before this one. And we were talking about I started using ChatGPT as what I called Eric's Robodoc. That was like the project that I named it. And you know, I kept fitting all this information and I go to it all the time, all the time, right? It's there for me anytime I need it. And I and Rob was saying the same thing. And Rob's, you know, world-renowned nutritionist and biochemist, and he's written all these books, and he uses uh grok. And I'm like, we just talked like, well, if you're gonna start your own grok doc at this point, what how what would you do? And we talked about the information we would give it, all the tests we can have. And then I started listening and talking, my God, but and like in your test, like a genetic test, right? Like a 23andMe is super cheap now, used to be really expensive. Like blood work, you can actually get done, you know, have someone come to your house and just get that taken. Like all these things can get can be done really simply and are more accessible, maybe not to everybody yet, but I think that's a big part of it. And obviously, you know, I don't know how much we want to get into how broken our healthcare system is or the trajectories we're on now. But do you think all of this stuff, you know, from your perspective and the research you put into this report, do you think we're at a very positive turning point with all these technologies and things coming through?

Well, we're certainly not at a negative one. And so yeah, quite positive. And it it's enabling us to take all this stuff way up, way upstream, right? Right now it's like episodic care. Get sick, go to the doctor, take care of it. And you know, the wellness trend began with people, they're they're eating better, they're exercising a little bit more, they're going to the gym. But when you throw in the ability to gather data with wearables, and you couple that with your your claw, chat GT, GPT, where that's your primary care. Now, do you need your doctor? Sure. But I I think it's really a transformative time in healthcare right now, with all these things coming together at just the right time.

One of the things I highlighted in the report, because I did a lot of highlighting today, was um you there was a quote towards the second page which said, even traditionally skeptical stakeholders, so insurers, large healthcare providers are embracing preventative solutions, realizing that paying for prevention can be less expensive than treating complex ailments. That's a powerful statement because um you know, I've had multiple people on this podcast that won't name names, they're like, nah, there'll never be a convergence of payers and all, you know, the whole thing, it'll never happen. They want to keep people sick. And I'm like, well, they want to be profitable, right? So follow the money. And it seems to be now that there's a very large case to be made from a profit standpoint, the preventive care is more.

Absolutely. Well, if you're you're a business owner and you're you're watching your your model kind of crumble in front of your very, very eyes, right? You have to do something to embrace that. Other otherwise your business is just gonna shrink. Because all those six people sick people they're going to the doctor and you were just taking, you know, 20% off the top or whatever. A lot of those people aren't gonna be coming in because they're so much more healthy.

Right?

They're going to go in the gyms, they're taking GLP1s or taking protein supplements, or they're using chat PT GPT to monitor their changes in health. And they're out of the equation. So you you almost have to respond, or your business, in my opinion, your business shrinks.

Excuse me. You were on this GLP thing, GLP one thing very early. I think you wrote a report, was it like two, two, three years ago?

I did a long, long time ago. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Um and I can't remember exactly where we were. Were you bullish on it at the time? Were you skeptical? And has any of that changed over the last three, four years?

Well, I was bullish on it. Excuse me, it was more a book sort of narrow perspective, but I think the original paper I wrote was arguing look, people are gonna embrace uh TLP1s, insurance is gonna cover it, you're gonna lose weight, um, you're gonna lose muscle mass, you have to do something about that. Therefore, this is gonna be a boom to the gym to the to the gym segment. So that was the basic premise. And I think the number we came up with was like it could be a 6.7 billion dollar lift over time to the club space. And I remember the rough math was you know, $500 a year for a membership, 10% of people on GLP ones will actually join because their doctor tells them to to you know restore lean lean muscle mass. So our argument was it's gonna be great for the industry. Now I think it has been. It's it's very difficult to say, you know, how much what's driving the the big boom in in gyms right now is GLP one based. But it's it's not insignificant, I don't think.

And that that was always the question I had. Uh I've gone back and forth on GOP once many times, and I've eaten my words more than once. But the the abil like are is it actually sending people into gyms? Like, do we have any research that now? I I I people are losing weight by the tons, right? Um, but does that mean that they're gonna get now into and I've certainly anecdotally that yes, they are seeking out active lifestyles, right? They want to start exercising, they want to start doing more things and all that. But do we have any like large data sets that are telling us like, okay, this is actually driving people into health clubs or activities that maybe they didn't do?

You know, I don't I don't know of d raw data yet that's a the sports that just just anecdotally. I mean it'd be relatively easy to do, actually.

Right. I would love to see it.

You do a you know do a do a survey and it'd be relatively easy to do a data set of GLP one users who's gone to the gym. It's a good idea for Harrison Co.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you guys need someone to help with that, you can do it.

But you're what what's your what's your thesis? Are you you're saying Oh, you think it is? Okay.

I think it is. I think it is. And I originally said probably on this podcast and numerous other places, I'm like, I just don't buy it. I've been doing it in this industry for so long. I've coached people. I'm like, you know, if you're not gonna give someone a magic pill, then they're gonna be like, oh, you know what, now I want to do it the hard way. I just didn't see it. But now I've I've read enough stories, I've personally seen people, you know, lose a lot of weight and and change their lifestyle and get excited about you know doing sports or activities in gym. So anecdotally, I think it is, but I would love to see more you know information on that. And I'm sure there's a lot of you know, gym owners or health club operators or regional operators who are screaming, going to be like, I have the data. You know, we've done the surveys.

So if you have, uh, you know, let Paul and I'm well our our original thesis would was that people would yes would join gyms, but more than likely if they're on GLP ones, they've been overweight. You know, there they're there's an intimidation factor of going to the gym. They don't they don't even know you know how to check in. So I I I don't I don't think it's as large as some people think or hope, but it's definitely driving people into gyms. And and we argued way back when we wrote that paper is that hey, this this will be an opportunity if you're a local gym owner make it easy to onboard people, make it friendly, you know, embrace embrace these people. And I'm sure there's some some that have, you know, guys like Miora that are really ahead of the curve on a lot of this, of course, has. But I think I think now you have much higher percentage of GLP1 users going to gyms to work out.

Well, there's a you know, I'll give a shout out to one of my our friends at Corb Health, K-O-R-B. So they'll just outsource all this stuff, they'll just do a simple marketing agreement with gyms, right? And hey, we'll we'll take all, you know, just send out a couple emails who's on GLP1s or who wants to do peptides, who wants to do these things, um, essentially telemedicine that that also works in alignment with the active lifestyle, the gym business model, right? No, we're we're gonna we're gonna make sure everybody's doing it in a way that's aligned with their lifestyle, their exercise, and their nutrition, but we're gonna be that providing partner to you. So I think there's a lot of really interesting models starting to come out now that make a lot of sense for for a lot of people. So let's get into like data technology and social awareness. That's one of the first chapters you have in this report.

Okay.

One of the uh things I highlighted here is nearly one in three adults, one in three adults now wear a smart health device. And in 2025, 35% of Americans reported using artificial intelligence to seek physical or mental health counseling.

Right.

So this is mass consumption.

Yes, it is. Absolutely. Absolutely. And look what it does, right? Say, okay, one in three people had a wearable device saying four years ago, whoop de-doo. They probably didn't use the data, and that they they didn't do anything with it. They had it, okay, I know I have my aura ring, I know when I sleep well, I know when I don't, I'm not gonna even wear it anymore. But now when you can take that data and feed it into Claude or ChatGP1, and and now you're monitoring changes over time and you're and you're integrating a lot of other things instead of just one or two data points, right? And I think that's one of the key considerations.

Yeah. Well, it's it's uh referred to it always as the now what problems people get fed a lot of data from different sources and they just don't know what to do with it. Like, well, now what? Yeah, and I think that that the AI component that is so accessible for $30 a month, right? You can have any basically any one of these um generated by and they're they're getting really good. And I mean they're getting better by like the week. Like I use them every day, and every time, like I'm like, oh wow, that was really good. And it pulls research for me to back up what it's claiming and all these things. So it's just getting better and better at such a breakneck pace, it's ridiculous.

Yeah, well, it's not only that, you know, I've been using it for a while too, right? So I put every I put all my blood tests in. So it has a fair amount of data on me now, and so it becomes much more predictive and more all-encompassing. That is the more data points the gifts, the better it is. Um, and I think that's a a key thing for people to know. You know, just don't use it for one-offs. Doctor told me, you know, I need to go on GLP GLP1. So you ask it, hey, how are which one should I take, or what dose, or whatever? Use it for everything. Put all your blood tests. You can you can upload images, as you probably know to it, like MRIs, x-rays, all the, as I say, all the health, the blood work analysis. So it it in essence does become your sort of GP.

Well, and I I think no matter what, it's always if something, it's gonna at some point it's gonna kick you back into the medical system, right? If there's something that needs to be dealt with, right? If you want to get on GOP1. I mean, there's a lot of people who cowboy it and you can just go order from you know peptide science and do it that way. And, you know, I'm sure there's plenty of people that are listening right now who who do that. But you know, for some of the other stuff that maybe want to get done, I don't know. I feel like the the medical profession now is probably facing a not probably is definitely facing a much more educated patient-based, right? It must be overwhelming. Yeah, and just the five, like I can't imagine like if I'm a doctor, I'm probably seeing, you know, 20 patients a day, how many times someone came in and comes in and like you can tell they're not medically trained, but they have a really strong medical answer for maybe an ailment that they used to like. We used to Google everything. Dr. Google was a thing, but AI now is way better than Dr. Google.

Right. Well, I mean, everybody should be armed with information when you go to your doctor. You shouldn't just presuppose that they you know they they're the oracle at Delphi and they have all the right answers to your question. You know, come come armed. You know, you're you're a smart guy. You went to college, why not? You didn't you didn't go to medical school, but you can ask smart questions.

Right. Right. Well, I ask questions for a living personally. Yep. So uh so we talked about GLP1s and peptide treatments. So GLP one, as far as peptides goes, is kind of the the bell of the ball. Like that's the one most people know. I was on a you know chairlift the other day, I was talking with some friends, and um I'm like, I'm like GLP1s are actually a peptide. They're like, no, it's not. Like it is. It is. They're like, what? And how are these companies making so much money off it? I'm like, I don't know. Because it's it's a peptide, right? You can get it at a lot of different places, but yet I don't know. It's it's it's amazing. And we don't have to get into the finances of it all, but so GLP one's very popular, but what do you think about the rest of kind of like the peptide push at this point? Is it is it just early on, or do you think a lot of people are I think it's early on.

Yeah, I think it's early on. And I think it needs somebody needs to come along and sort of 80-20 the stack of of peptides, right? So here here are the ones that are gonna have the largest effect on the largest percent of the of the pop of the population. Because you know, there are these niche peptides. Don't ask me to name one off the top of my head, but you know, that serve a very, very small percentage of niche athletes or whatever. But you know, ones for people like myself where I just I just want to maintain what I have.

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What's that stack look like? What are the some of the top ones could be called like recovery? What's the recovery B 157?

Like I think DCP 157.

Yeah, 157. And that that's been you know, I've been following that. Some states it's been outlawed, now it's not. I don't know what frankly I'm I'm not even sure what the federal stance on that is right now. I know in some states I think it's it's still not allowed for whatever reason.

I actually just started using it. About 10 days ago, I have a knee. It's got some problems. Uh did stem cells a couple years ago. That worked well, but it's still just, you know, I don't I hate to say it. I think it's just arthritic. And uh so I, you know, talked to someone I know and trust and put me on a little pro call. It's been about seven to eight days now, and it does feel way better. And I, you know, I ski a lot, so I'm putting a lot of damn a lot a lot of stress on that joint. I have to say, like, I don't know if it's maybe other things in my life that I've improved, you know, done more stretching and all that stuff to improve it, but I I but it seems like there's something there for sure. It's working.

Is it uh injectable or oral? Yeah.

Or both injectable. Yeah, directly into the to the right around the the knee. So that stuff doesn't bother me. I know a lot of people don't like needles, but doesn't really bother me. Um okay, so GLP ones, yeah, and there's there's a lot. I mean, I think there's a lot of stacking that's gonna take place. I talked to Joel Jameson, um, who's probably one of the world's biggest experts in recovery science. And uh, you know, he's gonna start publishing stuff about these stacks because a lot of people just don't know. They don't know where to go, right? They don't know who the experts are. Um, so I think we're gonna start to see a lot more education on this, on these things out there available to people, which is gonna drive, once again, more demand and how access, it's just gonna be really interesting how regulatory bodies deal with peptides.

Yeah, and I think too, you know, trying to get upstream of these things as as as much as you can, right? So if you could you could go back to you know your days as a we, I don't know if you were a competitive skier, but you know, when when when you when you when you first started and and now, okay, so if you're not you weren't competitive, but you're skiing four or five times a week, a lot of stress on your you need. You were a you were a water polo player, right? So those stress there, so no complaints. You know, the further I think upstream you can go on this stuff, the longer you're gonna be able to participate at a very a very high level.

Yeah. Yeah. So the next section we have here is uh wearable health tech. So personal monitoring goes mainstream. So it's it's not just about wearable data, you know, like the traditional Aura Whoop garment. There's there's a lot going on in personal monitoring from a lot of different forms. So maybe give us some of the high level on that. We can talk about how that's been changing and it will continue to change.

Well, still the ones that have the most impactful. I I think continuous glucose monitoring is probably something would be suitable for almost everybody to do at some point. I don't know something you have to do all the time. I think it's one of those things that you use it and you get to know your body's reaction to different to different foods. So you can monitor things there. Once you know that, I'm not sure you need it. But that that's one I think that should be on every everybody's list. The earlier in life, the better. Right? Because you're talking about diet. So boom, real high on my list there. I think a smartwatch, uh, you know, apples, apples fine, but you know, you I mean, you definitely want to monitor your you know your zone two workouts, zone one. So that's and that's one that's very, very accessible right now. Whatever they got, 120. Or a ring, I think, can be very valuable. Once again, like a glucose monitor. I think it's one of those things that once you use it for a while, you get to know your patterns, you get to know you know when to how early to have dinner, don't have wine after a certain time, those kinds of things. Once you know it, boom, I'm not sure you need it all the time. But those would be uh to me the top the top three.

And it it gets pretty niche too, right? I mean, we're uh there there's sensors in just about everything in mattresses, toilets, like all these things. You know, there they seem to be putting sensors into.

Well, I think I'm gonna pass on the toilet.

Yeah, I don't want I don't want to know. Yeah, there's just some things I don't I don't want to know. Yeah, 35% of US adults are using wearable devices and health device in 2023. That's that's just that's so many.

Well, just a just a quick comment there to finish it. Um I'm just really big on accessibility, and it's one of the issues I've had with the whole longevity space, and you know, until recently, where we come down the cost curve on a lot of this stuff, it just wasn't accessible to the masses. And if you're really going to impact America's health, which is I feel a lot of us in in this industry, that's kind of our dream, right? That we can get as many as people as possible healthy. Not great athletes, just healthy. And and it was just too niche, too expensive. But, you know, and then when I look back at it, I'm like, well, okay, that's how markets work, great. They're expensive at first, heavy really adopters, and then over time, if it if it plays out and we and it can be made more accessible with volume, that's what happens. And that's exactly what's happening now.

Yeah, you put some really impressive stats, and I'll we'll get into those and as we go through this. And I think one of the frustrations people have with the healthcare system, and this is just me and just about everybody I talk to when I bring this up, but we pay a lot for health insurance. But then all this other stuff comes out of pocket too, right? So it's like even when I go, every time I go to the doctor, it's got a bill for dermatologist, right? I get my checked once a year. And uh went through insurance, still 250 bucks, right? I got some lab work done. Um, I'm sure it's covered a tiny bit. $700, right? You're like, whoo, ooh, God, it starts to add up, right? It starts to add up. So it's like at what point, I mean, yes, and the costs are going down, it's hard to see that because you feel this, right, as you go. And, you know, or it's great, it's what, 400 bucks now, but that's still not nothing, right? And you got to pay the subscription fee and all like, and I think all the subscription fees are really starting to add up too, where it's it's getting um easier, but it doesn't feel lighter on the wallet to use all of these tools that we have at our fingertips now.

Yeah, and that's probably highly variable, right? It depends on what what insurance you have, et cetera. I mean, I happen to think that Amazon, and I'm not the only one here. Amazon long-term is the is the game changer here.

Really?

You know, they've done it in every industry, you know, they're doing it now in just a prescription. So I I don't know about you, but I have moved every prescription to Amazon.

Really?

Everyone. When I reorder online, boom, it's on at my doorstep, literally the same, the same day. You know, they're getting into their own kind of primary care places with one medical. I don't know if you have one, you might not have one in your area, but we I have one just two miles from here. Very accessible, very easy for Andrew. Um, so so I think they'll they'll drive it. Amazon is obviously a great company, and when they see an opportunity, they go after it in a big way. And that's that's what's happening right now. And it'll be a good thing for healthcare.

Yeah, we're kind of it feels like a breaking point right now. Like something has to change because the consumer is demanding it and someone's gonna fit that need. It's kind of like when uh cable and bundled, remember? Like cable was just getting to be so damn expensive, right? And it was people are just like, I'm out, I'm done, I'm cutting the cord, or and then YouTube TV came in. Now it's ridiculous. Like all these, yeah, now all these streaming things, you add them all up, you're like, I'm paying more now than I did, you know, 15 years ago for cable. But kind of what it feels like is like that pressure from the consumer is building so much that something's gonna break because someone's gonna come along and be like, hey, here's the solution. It's just gonna flock that way.

Well, I mean, but back to you know, GLP1s and other peptides and going upstream of all this, right? So get if if everybody just gets more healthy, they're gonna they're gonna force healthcare to change because they're not gonna have as many customers. So they're gonna have to embrace that model or just pare themselves down and just adapt to you know the consumer base that's coming in for every little nick and cut, right? Again, I think we're still at a very early time here, but eventually healthy people will drive change in the healthcare market because they won't be going there at the same numbers or with the same frequency anyway.

Yeah.

Well, you're seeing Yeah, and you're seeing uh a lot of people, not a lot, but you're starting to see the the signs of people opting out. Like uh, you know, I'll give credit to the CrossFit Medical Society of what they're doing, where essentially you you they're just taking what they feel are really healthy people and they're just opting out. They're doing their own thing, right? And uh, you know, I've you started to see these kind of faith-based, you know, insurance models or whatever you want to call them popping up. And I think it's we're seeing the cracks, right? The cracks are there in the dam. And it's it's it's gonna be a really interesting time for that. Um one of the things, so you you brought this up too, is like in the report, um, sleep and recovery tech. I think over the last five years, the conversation around sleep has grown so much. Like people really understand the value of sleep, and there's so many things that that factor into that. But yeah, tell us about like what you've what you're writing about here is sleep and recovery technology specifically, and and what gets you excited about that.

I mean, if you look at sleep, sleep, it's one of the big drivers of of health, right? It's where your body regenerates itself every night. And if you don't get a good night's sleep over time, you you pay the dues. You don't you don't pay it over a week or a month or even a couple of years, but but long term, yes. So people know that now, and it's it's a credit to another area that we haven't really talked about, but it's your area, it's podcasts, it's the TIAs and the Hubermans and and in the books. So people are much, much, much more aware than they've they've ever been.

Well, you have one, uh this this one caught my eye. The broader sleep technology market from cooling mattresses and advanced bedding to sleep trackers and anti-snoring devices is growing rapidly, expected to double from about 20 plus billion in 2024 over the next five years while increasing share of the broader home bedding market. That's a lot of dollars.

And uh it's a yeah, it's a lot of dollars. Again, it's in that area that that that I like to say it's the it's it's the upper end, it's the upper end of the market, right? So they they get the benefit. I mean, unfortunately. Now, hopefully you know, we talk about this in the paper. That early adopters more expensive. As more people jump in, higher volumes, you could drive it down the cost, the cost curve. But if if nothing else in sleep, you've got the the baby boomers and and then the next generation coming along, Gen X, that's probably you. Um sleep apnea is a huge issue that drives poor sleep. Huge. And a lot a lot of people don't even know they have it, right? So that segment I expect to continue to grow and grow rapidly because sleep apnea is a precursor to dementia. I don't know if it uh actually drives, but it's linked.

Yeah, cardiovaxer disease.

So sleep critical. And uh yeah, I mean, I I've got a CPAP that I take with me everywhere, and you know, my wife used to tell me, Oh, you need to get checked, you need to get checked. Well, I ended up getting afibrillation about four years ago. And one of the first things these things they do is make you do a sleep step. So, you know, I got this up, like all the wires, put them on that night, got them next day, brought it to my sleep doctor, brought it in. She calls me the next day, said uh you gotta get a CPAP right away. You had like off-the-chart number of events, and I had no idea. So I got so I got a CPAP, and I said to my wife the next day, wow. So that's what a good night's sleep feels like. Yeah. And I'm, you know, I'm a small subset. There are, you know, most it's funny, go on a next time to go on a plate. See how many guys are carrying those little gray suitcases. Those are all those are all CPAPs.

Well, the thing that um I'm I'm waiting for, because I got diagnosed with mild sleep apnea as well. And I'm sure it's not gonna get better. But I don't like the CPAP. My dad had one. I'm like, there's gotta be someone out there has gotta be smart enough to figure out a less, I guess, invasive tool, right? So there's something I'm watching, I don't know if you if you're this is on your radar. So Dr. Andy Galpin has absolute rest as one of his companies. Yeah. Um so it's the first FDA approved home sleep test that you can do. And you know, it's if at first I think the cost is, you know, over ten thousand dollars, and but it's coming down really fast, really fast. And this is something where because you know, I I've done that at home. I went to the sleep lab to do it. And there's no way in hell you're getting a good night's sleep in that place. There's just no way. It's not your bed. And you did that home one, which is probably makes a lot more sense. But you know, hooked up to wires, there's literally someone watching you from a window, which is weird, right? Wonderful. There's lights everywhere, right? It's like there's no way I was gonna get a good sleep sleep feedback on that. But the point is, like, if if there at this point in time, if there was a better solution than the CPAP of my age, I would do it. But I'm just hesitant, right? But maybe I should try it, and then I'll be like, it's worth it. I don't know.

Well, I don't know if I would be able to do the full face mask thing. I've seen I've seen those. Like I told them no way I could do that. I'd be claustrophobic. So the one I have at just the use, they call them pillows, right? That just fit in your in your nostrils. And yeah, I mean, is it the most comfortable thing in the world? No, but I have no trouble getting to sleep. I'm on the same page of the same book I've been trying to read for a month now, my Kindle, and I still fall asleep in the same paragraph. So no issues getting to sleep. It's not, like I say, not that comfortable, but the night's sleep, the improvement in the night's sleep is noticeable.

Good. Well, it's good, man. I'm glad you're getting that relief because that is, I've heard from multiple people. They go their whole life and then they try like, my God, is this what it's like for everyone else? Right? Exactly. So here's uh I feel like where it's all kind of coming together. It's it's the these the longevity clinics. And uh, Alex, Elementastianu, who you know very well. You know, we've we've talked in this podcast numerous times about like the business model is being figured out, right? Like, what do these go for? Some of them, I think you're I don't know what the price range. Yeah, from $5,000 to $250,000 a year. You can you can get into some of these clinics or get involved with them. Some are going the franchise model, some of the people are going independent, corporate owned, some are like merging with like the monarch athletic clubs or merging with you know both of them together and more of a gym style feel, right? Um so there's all these different models out there, kind of put under this umbrella of longevity. So how are you feeling now that we're a couple years into this, you know, longevity being a buzzword? How do you feel about it? How what what's your what's your excitement level?

Well, I mean, I still think we're in the early phases of the distribution side. I think we're, you know, as we've already discussed, fairly far along the sort of the science side of it. But a distribution, I think we're still in the early phases. And I look at it, I go, man, there how many how many gyms are there out there? A lot. 26,000 or some crazy number. We talk about a distribution channel. So why not package like Alex has invested in pause? Right? And so you take you take that pause model, shrink it down a little bit, and go to EOS. You know, take one or two of those racquetball courts out and put put this in, and boom, instant longevity clinic. So, you know, and you've got all these gyms out there. I can I could see an EOS, I'd be shocked actually, if EOS isn't having this exact conversation. Or they don't even or they have it, don't have an in-test right now. So it's like a massive distribution channel, and somebody's gonna figure out a way to utilize that.

Who uh who out there is doing it well when you look at the longevity sector, um like the brick and mortar? Is there anybody out like, okay, these guys are sharp? They're doing something like that.

Not at the accessible level. I mean, I think you're a lifetime, those guys do a good job at at everything. But that I wouldn't, again, wouldn't call that accessible long longevity. And that's where the opportunity is. So again, I think I think the existing distribution channel out of the gym is perfect for somebody to go in and just it's like uh so I'm on the board of um center.

Yeah.

Wonderful, wonderful company run by a great guy. And we have we have the rights to uh high rocks in a in a lot of in a lot of ways. All the equipment is is made is made by us, but we have the rights in the distribution and the in the in the gym. And and that's one of the things we're doing. Packaging mini high rocks training centers that fit fit right in. So you think that's the exact same model for this.

Yeah. But but here's the thing that's challenging with that is like scaling that out state to state when you're doing medical services is more challenging, right? Like it's that's what uh that's true. Like Jim Donnelly at Human Off talked to him numerous times about I think they're doing it really well, but it's not easy. It's basically what he says one of the more challenging things he's ever done in his entrepreneurial career, which we all know is you know long and you know, very successful. So I think there's there's challenges to this of like how how exactly do you scale state by state? Um, then you have to follow, you keep up to date with like well, peptide laws and regulations and all that stuff. So it's definitely I agree. I think it's the it's so obvious that this is this is the way to go. But I think it's um it's not quite a plug and play yet. It's there's got to be something things sort out.

We both know Jeff, Jeff Zwefel pretty well, and Jeff has pointed that exact thing out, depending on what what state you're in. And almost every state you have to have a physician associated with it, again, depending on the services that you offer and how easy is it to get a physician that's gonna sign on. So it's not a layout by any means.

Yeah. Yeah. Um so at the end of this report, you you you brought up some stuff that was really eye-opening. Um, I presume will tell people where to get this report afterwards. But the cost, you mentioned it early on, the cost of things have gone down, right?

Right.

1991, a CGM, a continuous glucose monitoring was $6,000. Today it's $199. Uh DNA and genomic testing these early 2000s was $93 million. Now it's under $100.

Wow. Well, it's a fun, you know, it's a function of two things, right? I mean, it's a function of volumes. Yeah. As you have volumes, you know, the cost cost goes down. Then the other is just technology, right? You know, it was in that continuous glucose monitor, it probably had a lot more parts when it first came down. It was probably a lot more bulky. So it's been it's the manufacturing process has been optimized. You have more volume, the drive-down cost. So that's kind of and that happens in every business, right? So we're just following the same place.

But we have we have supercomputers in our pockets. I mean, if you looked at like the 1950s, they would have been like, that's the more computing power that we've ever seen. And it's right in our pockets, and it costs 700 bucks, right? Um, body fat monitoring, so $300 down to 99 today. Um, blood pressure monitors, right. It used to be these big bolty hundred thousand dollar things. Now they're 99 bucks, right? Or less. Like you can get one for way less, I think. Um and wearables, um, at least 50% over time, and they gotten so much more robust and comprehensive. Um, so all the stuff is is going in in the right direction. Last question for you, I guess. Well, maybe not. We'll see how it goes, how you answer this. Um if we're having this conversation again at the beginning of 2027, what do you think is going to be the biggest driver for our industry? What do you think people are not paying attention to enough? What do we need to know?

Ooh, that's a that's that that's a tough one. Um it's an oracle question. Too big on predicting the the future because I know I'll be wrong. And what what most people try to do is we all extrapolate. So whatever the slope of the curve is, we just we just go like this. There's a great gal, uh Hester, I remember she's a British uh economist, but Hester Dyson. And she said this great quote The only point on the curve anybody cares about is where it changes slope. And right, and so that's true. Like where when are things when are things going to change? So you're asking me, you know, two things. One is okay, when is this gonna break? And some could break in like this, I mean, just record growth from really good growth to insane growth, or it could go the Other way, and you know, you resaturation the market declines. You know, again, I'm just a big fan of 8020ing all of this stuff in in longevity and health care and wellness, and and the you know, the 20% of the stuff that really drives the needle. So, what I would predict is that's that's what's gonna happen more and more is you know, instead of these therapies that are you know very, very esoteric, and we're gonna give things that really benefit more people because that's where the frankly, that's where the money is, too. Um what that is, I can't I can't tell you, but I think it'll fit that general use case.

Awesome. I lied. Last questions. What do you what are you looking for? Like if people are listening to this, like are there any specific types of conversations you're looking to have? Any help that you need, any challenges you're facing, Paul? I know at this career you're kind of cruising, but uh yeah, people are listening and they're gonna reach out with them. Me personally or yeah, you and Harrison Company.

Yeah. Okay. You don't want to hear my challenges. You know, whole other podcast for that. We'll do that offline. Yeah. Oh no, you know, with Harrison Co. You know, as I said in the introduction, I I love working with Bill and the we have a really smart team. It is, you know, helping people optimize their their businesses. Because we go and go in and work with somebody and they say, well, you know, we're thinking about doing a capital raise or me, you know, maybe selling a company, and we don't go, oh yeah, here you go. You know, just sign here and we'll sell, we'll we'll take a percentage. I mean, we'll we'll get everything they've done in the last say four years: financials, new product development, uh top, you know, just changes in distribution, everything. And to take all that and develop that into a like a five-year strategic strategic plan. And give them that as a template. And sometimes that they just get it and they'll come back to us five years later and sell the company. Other times we'll take that and turn that into a sales document and really make their company more valuable than they realize it was, because taking the data they have now, where where they're going, we have access to other information, different distribution channels, way, ways to lower the cost of their products, these kinds of things. And we can go into a company, say a PE firm is going to buy it, and say, okay, here's where they are in there, here's their trajectory, here are the things we know we can do based based on data or whatever in the next three years to optimize volume, you know, uh improve growth, improve margins, optimize the distribution. So that's what's exciting about being being part of it, is it's not just hey, you know, here's we'll sell your company and it's like a real estate listing. Not at all. It's really let's let's take a strategic plan so we can give it to the next person that buys it, and they basically have a roadmap for growth.

So you engage with companies earlier, like not just to the point of potential sale, like you do like well we've a lot of companies we've you know we've been talking to for literally years.

You know, it's not like the guy says, Hey, you know, I'm gonna sell my company, we we'll we'll we'll get to meet him, we'll engage them. Um Bill will tell you stories of guys that he's known for you know five to ten years who you know didn't do a deal until then. But they you know worked together, got to know each other, maybe helped them grow the company, did a small capital raise, and then they go to sell it, and boom, we're we're there to help them.

Well, you know, it's um I don't know how many years I've been in this industry now, like 17, maybe 18. Um people that I knew in 2009, right? Kind of keep in touch. But there's like things happen over a period of time where it's like all of a sudden now you're partners in something, or they're a client of yours, or you're a client of theirs. Like it's just these this relationship thing over, especially in a market like ours and a industry like ours, where it's still kind of small, right? People kind of know each other. There's a lot of degrees of Kevin Bacon here. But it's like it it just goes to show like if you just stay around, be good to people, you know, offer some value that just be a little patient. Things things are probably gonna pop at some point, right?

Yeah, that's right. And I can tell you with this gray hair, I mean, one of the things I've learned is um staying connected and not not in a way that is, you know, hey, I'm gonna some I'm gonna make money off this relationship, but just being being being a person who you meet somebody, you like them, just stay in touch, you know, touch face every once in a while. You know, people want to stay want to stay connected, and if something comes out of it, great. But you know, every every relationship isn't transactional. And I and I think if you if you enter into a relationship hoping it's going to be transactional, that's the wrong perspective. Because over the years in this industry, I've met guys that are total friends, you know, we do I just did business with. But you know, you end up skiing together, you end up fishing together, you end up, you know, meeting their kids, and you know, that's that's the stuff of life.

I agree. Um beautifully said. I'm gonna leave it right there, and I hope that we do this next podcast in person so that we can go fly fishing immediately afterwards.

I'll do that.

Paul, uh, this report, where where can people get it? When when's it gonna be out roughly? How do how do they get their hands on it?

Probably not for another month. You what you read as you thankfully pointed out, a little few typos. Thank you very much.

Umiented. Yeah.

It was the first uh gen. But it'll be out uh Harrisonco.com. You can get any of our other reports are on there, the GLP1 report. We still send out more of that GLP1 report than than I think any. That other report we did on the on the massive growth of the strength industry is is kind of a winner as well. But all all of our reports across everything we do, we do a lot in the food segment, nutrition segment. So you you can go to Harrison Co. and see see all the reports and see who our bankers are and see how see what our team looks like.

Yeah, they're really good. Really good. I'm not just saying that because you're digitally right in front of me. Um Thank you. And if people want to get a hold of you, Paul, where where do you want them to go? LinkedIn, email, what's best for you?

I think you can go to pburn at harrisonco.com.

Okay. Okay, great.

Or Paul LinkedIn.

Okay. Well, Paul, thank you so much. Uh it's always a pleasure, and I guess I'll probably be seeing you at some event in the next few months, uh, either HFA or or one of those, one of those fun ones.

So I hope so.

Thank you, sir. It's always a pleasure. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks, sir.

Paul Burn. Take care, bud. Bye.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minutes. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it. iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.