Paul Bowman - Wexer & Macro Trends in Content Consumption

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[00:02:15] All right. We are live. Paul Nomen, welcome to the future of fitness, my friend.

[00:02:24] Love to be here. Thank you very much for having me.

[00:02:26] Yeah, you're one of those guys where it's you and I are just chatting. I can't believe

[00:02:30] we haven't met.

[00:02:31] Yeah, I know that is true.

[00:02:34] The first question I have to be an executive at Wexer, do you have to be over two

[00:02:38] meters tall? You people are so thick.

[00:02:41] I don't know. No is the official answer, but we treat to hire tall people. I'm not

[00:02:50] too sure.

[00:02:51] It's easy to spot at conferences.

[00:02:54] Maybe. They did say that you can always see Paul in a room and it's just always easy

[00:02:58] to follow him. So maybe it's just more of an efficient thing. We're trying to make

[00:03:02] everything more efficient, so that helps.

[00:03:04] Yeah, awesome, man. Well, thank you for doing this. I can already tell this is going

[00:03:07] to be a lot of fun. You're the CEO of Wexer. You also run the Wexer podcast.

[00:03:11] You've been in the industry quite a while. You're big in athletics. A lot of stuff

[00:03:16] to cover with you and maybe just to set the table here, Paul, if you don't mind,

[00:03:19] give us a little bit about your background. How did you end up as the CEO of Wexer?

[00:03:22] And then we'll get into some of the topics that we discussed earlier.

[00:03:24] Yeah, no, no, no. So I'll start off.

[00:03:27] So I was a failed athlete.

[00:03:28] I think it's probably the easiest thing to do.

[00:03:30] I got injured very, very early.

[00:03:31] I used to play professional volleyball.

[00:03:33] That actually built my rehab and my knowledge for wanting to have better

[00:03:38] experiences and data knowledge sharing because I realized when I was in

[00:03:42] rehab, there was only a few people.

[00:03:45] I'm coming from New Zealand right now, but I actually played in Germany

[00:03:48] and then got injured and got sent back to New Zealand to rehab.

[00:03:50] And I realized that there's only maybe two people that knew all of this

[00:03:53] knowledge and none of that was shared.

[00:03:55] It was very much locked under locks and keys.

[00:03:58] So I originally got really, really passionate about the industry in terms

[00:04:01] of too much stuff is behind closed wall and we need to be able to share that.

[00:04:06] So then, of course, we traditionally went into operation as an owner

[00:04:11] and an operator.

[00:04:12] And I guess my story is linked to Wexer heavily as most entrepreneurs

[00:04:18] are, but there was a club group that I was running in London and we realized

[00:04:23] that we actually were challenging ourselves to how important group

[00:04:27] exercise was.

[00:04:28] So this was 2012, 2013.

[00:04:30] So we ran a survey to see we're creating our own content, we're doing

[00:04:33] everything else.

[00:04:34] And we were like, how important is this?

[00:04:35] Because the cost structure is huge.

[00:04:37] So the survey came back.

[00:04:38] They were essentially a third of the membership.

[00:04:39] These boxes would hold around about 3,000 members.

[00:04:43] A third of the membership were the only reason they were going was these

[00:04:45] group exercise classes.

[00:04:47] And in particular, there was only three trainers that they were coming for.

[00:04:50] But our rooms could only have the capacity of maybe holding 50, 60, 70 people.

[00:04:55] So we're actually realizing every week they were only coming for those

[00:04:58] trainers that they could even get into.

[00:05:00] So that was my original premise of coming from old rehab days where I'm

[00:05:05] like, hang on, we need to share our information far better.

[00:05:08] And then also realizing that the demand there was significant.

[00:05:12] But you could say we launched WEC for a little bit too early in 2013.

[00:05:17] So we had to heavily pivot, but I'm sure we'll get into that more.

[00:05:21] But that's my background in a nutshell.

[00:05:24] Wow.

[00:05:24] Wow.

[00:05:24] 11 years.

[00:05:25] Huh?

[00:05:26] And anything really has been around that long.

[00:05:28] Yeah.

[00:05:29] I know not a lot of people have.

[00:05:30] You know, it started because we realized the original premise is

[00:05:34] actually live streaming.

[00:05:36] So how do we make ourselves relevant outside the four walls of the club

[00:05:40] within this context and then cause realizing that actually that served a lot

[00:05:45] for a lot of other people when we, when we realized this was actually

[00:05:48] a business by itself, but, but we realized the technology stack and

[00:05:52] everything that we needed to build wasn't there.

[00:05:54] So that's when we said, Hey, look, you know, the original, so

[00:05:57] the original premise, even though it was how do we act, how do

[00:06:00] we give the best advice and the best talent to the people every time 24

[00:06:05] seven, which is just a norm now that wasn't a norm then.

[00:06:08] So that's when we actually pivot to say, look, we're going to go into the

[00:06:11] virtual category, which is, you know, was, and that had already started

[00:06:15] somewhat very, very, still very, very new.

[00:06:17] Uh, but yeah, that was, that was when we said, okay, look, we're

[00:06:20] gonna make our own player, proprietary technology and put that on so we can

[00:06:25] try help kill dead space in these, in these gyms and elsewhere, but it

[00:06:29] was very much was focused on gyms in 2013 and then from that, we will

[00:06:33] make sure that we build enough cash to be able to start playing in the

[00:06:37] mobile space as aggressively as we have.

[00:06:38] And now we do 25 million fitness experience.

[00:06:41] So we've got a lot, right?

[00:06:42] But we go wrong.

[00:06:43] It's not weird.

[00:06:45] Man, this is the way it goes.

[00:06:46] Uh, I guess maybe explain, you know, in its, in its current

[00:06:50] iteration, you know, we're in Q2 2024 here.

[00:06:53] Yeah.

[00:06:54] What does Wexer do?

[00:06:55] What is like the, the range of products and services

[00:06:59] that you guys provide now?

[00:07:00] There's a lot.

[00:07:01] I think the easiest way to think of it is Wexer is a fundamentally

[00:07:04] ecosystem of digital platforms.

[00:07:07] We have content that comes with those digital platforms.

[00:07:09] And so we aggregate all the top content from around the world.

[00:07:12] And so anyone from, you know, hotel co-operators, multifamily

[00:07:17] housing, hotels, uh, traditional gyms are able to do it.

[00:07:21] But I think the biggest probably trend now is we're seeing a lot of

[00:07:24] people create a creation of their own content as well.

[00:07:26] So there's a big mixture of people using our product, either on mobile.

[00:07:31] So mobile split into our app, our web, our SDK and our API.

[00:07:36] So a lot of people probably listening to your podcasts probably play with

[00:07:39] our content and our technology, but they don't know that we do.

[00:07:41] We're very much a white labeled service.

[00:07:43] So we're always going under.

[00:07:44] We always believe the, the, the club group or the operator that we're

[00:07:48] working with needs to be the rockstar and that we support that.

[00:07:51] We support that.

[00:07:52] So you, so everything is white labeled and then of course we've got

[00:07:54] them in what we call in-gym technology.

[00:07:57] So screens from, you know, how the traditional group exercise stuff, but

[00:08:01] also on the, on the gym floor and then course with, with core as well.

[00:08:05] We're integrating all of the content and the platform.

[00:08:08] So they're able to personalize the gym experience whilst

[00:08:10] using bits of equipment as well.

[00:08:12] So the platform Vludge is doing 25 million fitness experiences.

[00:08:16] And, but you know, there's we're a platform company and I think we're

[00:08:20] probably fit to say that we're actually moving into a little bit of

[00:08:22] a media cup, you know, a lot of our success has been helping club groups

[00:08:26] go, you know, being able to offer digital at scale to help their members,

[00:08:31] but also commercialize that.

[00:08:32] You know, we have partners that are posting 48 million a year on, on,

[00:08:36] on digital now with really, really nice media strategies, usually

[00:08:40] creation of their all their own content supported by the department

[00:08:44] library, so not as easy to answer as it used to be.

[00:08:47] Yeah.

[00:08:48] Welcome to the fitness industry in 2024.

[00:08:50] It's different than anything for sure.

[00:08:54] The, uh, when you say media company, I mean that, and now we're starting

[00:08:58] to get into like, you know, very broad category, but it's it, you

[00:09:02] know, how do you describe that as a, like B2C media is a B2C media.

[00:09:06] Like what, what types of medias are you, are you coming?

[00:09:08] Yeah, I might go back to, I'll actually even go back to before COVID.

[00:09:12] So there was a lot that we were realizing that people were using

[00:09:15] our technology stack and selling our third party content, which was

[00:09:20] fine, absolutely.

[00:09:21] And some got severely, most of us, significantly rewarded for that.

[00:09:24] But we realized that as people were engaging with content and how

[00:09:28] people engage with content change significantly in COVID drove this

[00:09:31] heavily is that people started to follow more persona based content.

[00:09:35] So people wanted to follow a particular, I don't want to call

[00:09:38] them influences, but like content creator and that content

[00:09:41] creator stood for some, so, you know, we, we did a piece of

[00:09:44] research, which happy to share it to your audience where we actually

[00:09:48] saw there was really sick major category in terms of how people

[00:09:51] engage with fitness, but in particular digital as well.

[00:09:54] And then, and it all is based off confidence.

[00:09:57] So the more confident you are, we kind of put you in two categories

[00:10:00] of your, the, uh, you know, the achiever or the focused individual.

[00:10:03] But right at the other spectrum when you're unconfident, you're

[00:10:06] you're, you're the beginner, you're the learner.

[00:10:08] And so one, one category is since he needs to be supported,

[00:10:11] one category needs to be inspired.

[00:10:13] But ultimately the technology stack needs to be worked out the same way.

[00:10:16] But what we realized is people would follow a particular persona.

[00:10:19] And I think, you know, Weight Watchers did this really well when they,

[00:10:22] you know, put on the likes of like James Corden and a few others to

[00:10:25] share that story and then that story resonated with a particular

[00:10:29] following and then, Hey, I see myself in that person and that

[00:10:32] therefore I followed.

[00:10:33] This is exactly the same within digital now.

[00:10:35] So, you know, the creation of generic content, even though it

[00:10:39] has its place 100% it has its place.

[00:10:41] It's not as well reviewed as local star content.

[00:10:45] So yeah.

[00:10:45] And that really sits really, really well with the commercial gym space

[00:10:49] because they're sitting on rock stars every day creating content within

[00:10:53] group exercise.

[00:10:53] So it's just literally a matter of kind of the changing the mindset.

[00:10:57] Like do you want that rock star to be a part of your brand,

[00:11:00] helping you grow memberships, which, you know, a lot of successful

[00:11:03] clubs have done this very, very well, but, but still not completely

[00:11:06] adopted in terms of the norm of IE how do I manage kind of fitness

[00:11:11] talent, you know, 12 fitness professionals that are persona driven,

[00:11:15] that I'm going to allow on my platform to deliver content every

[00:11:18] single week, you know, there's, there's challenges in that.

[00:11:20] So it's, that's what I mean by us becoming a little bit more

[00:11:23] immediate company where we're, we're hand holding a lot of,

[00:11:26] um, well, operators and you know, the people that we listen to

[00:11:29] your podcasts, but outside of outside of industries working with

[00:11:31] a lot of insurance companies and stuff doing a similar strategy.

[00:11:34] Yeah.

[00:11:35] Yeah.

[00:11:35] Really?

[00:11:36] I mean, there, there's a lot more follow up questions I have there.

[00:11:38] No, no, it's great.

[00:11:40] You know, I'm really interested in trends that you're recognizing

[00:11:44] within how content is consumed.

[00:11:48] You know, there's a lot of, we live in a world where there's

[00:11:50] just content everywhere.

[00:11:52] You can't escape it.

[00:11:53] Right.

[00:11:53] It's literally everywhere.

[00:11:54] Unless like, I got to go, I could go back country, like 10 miles.

[00:11:59] I feel like I finally feel away from all the content.

[00:12:01] But I think some, some of the smartest men and men and women

[00:12:04] in business are talking about everyone needs to become a

[00:12:06] content company.

[00:12:07] Cause you need to hold your brand.

[00:12:09] The, the, it's the intention of economy.

[00:12:10] It's why we're doing these podcasts.

[00:12:12] It's it's we're making sure that we're holding people's attention

[00:12:15] to the brand that they need to do.

[00:12:17] And that's where I think so many people are going, well, that's

[00:12:20] where media and content kind of overlap so significantly.

[00:12:23] Yeah.

[00:12:23] Yeah.

[00:12:24] You know, let's circle back because I want to get your

[00:12:26] insight on what other trends you're seeing, but I was recently

[00:12:29] listening actually this morning when I was working, I was listening

[00:12:31] to Lex Friedman podcast.

[00:12:33] Uh, uh, what's the name?

[00:12:34] Uh, Mark, uh, from the Dallas Mavericks, uh, yes.

[00:12:39] Thank you.

[00:12:40] Did he say that?

[00:12:41] But, uh, you know, he was talking about how he recognized

[00:12:43] bubbles, right within industry.

[00:12:46] And that's how we put a ton of money, like seeing patterns.

[00:12:49] And he was kind of talking about things and I was like, huh, as

[00:12:52] I was listening to it, I was like putting two and two together.

[00:12:54] I'm like, we definitely had a couple of bubbles pop right over

[00:12:58] the last year or two.

[00:12:59] So would you say, you know, uh, I mean,

[00:13:01] you guys were standing strong here, you know, in 2024, but would

[00:13:05] you say the digital fitness had a bubble that burst over

[00:13:08] the past few years?

[00:13:08] Yeah.

[00:13:09] It's, it's hard.

[00:13:10] I think yes.

[00:13:10] It is, is a short answer.

[00:13:12] And then I think we get it.

[00:13:13] There was a demand that needed to be met and there was

[00:13:15] money supporting that demand, which I think over exemplified

[00:13:20] what the, what the world was going to be, you know, like,

[00:13:22] like as I said to you offline is, you know, I always believe

[00:13:25] people in COVID were saying, I come from top operators.

[00:13:28] The reason why Wexler was built is to help top operators

[00:13:31] remain relevant in a digital world.

[00:13:33] So we, so we just couldn't see for the life of us why, you

[00:13:37] know, the likes of a palatial experience or other great

[00:13:40] content partners would just be able to hold them.

[00:13:42] That always had to go for, there had to be an element

[00:13:44] of physical and digital.

[00:13:45] And I think, I think the fourth, the hybrid, which is

[00:13:48] the good, but talking about just solely direct to home

[00:13:52] digital, we just couldn't see it, even though we benefited

[00:13:55] from it, you know, a lot of our, a lot of our people that

[00:13:58] we worked with had great uptick, but the reality was we

[00:14:01] always knew that it was probably going to come down

[00:14:03] by 50, 50 to 60 percent.

[00:14:05] And that's exactly where, where it is some, you know,

[00:14:07] that you look at the overall market for COVID, it's

[00:14:10] grown significantly and actually is still growing.

[00:14:11] If you take a, you know, a categorical look of it.

[00:14:13] So content adoption and digital adoption is still

[00:14:18] becoming a norm.

[00:14:19] So it forced the, I guess the, the hybrid, the

[00:14:23] people to embrace hybrid.

[00:14:24] However, I think yes, the bubble definitely popped.

[00:14:28] If it was, and I think, you know, a lot of these,

[00:14:31] there are a lot of the companies that we're

[00:14:32] probably thinking in our heads when we're listening

[00:14:34] to this is, you know, they're running at huge

[00:14:36] losses.

[00:14:36] So they didn't, you know, they kept trying to

[00:14:38] pump that bubble up as much as possible.

[00:14:41] But in reality, the demand wasn't there.

[00:14:42] And the soonest, you know, it opened up and

[00:14:44] physical locations opened up because you can't

[00:14:46] take that away.

[00:14:47] You know, there's, there's every single research

[00:14:49] piece we've ever done since 2022, 2023, I

[00:14:52] sorry, 2013 fundamentally highlighted the need

[00:14:55] to be able to have the physical experience

[00:14:57] supported with digital.

[00:14:59] And so, you know, unless we were extremely

[00:15:00] wrong, uh, which, you know, touch, touch,

[00:15:03] but we weren't, uh, we saw it.

[00:15:05] So how does digital support the physical?

[00:15:08] Like when, when you kind of outline that

[00:15:10] describe it and maybe even some use cases

[00:15:12] of clients that you guys work with.

[00:15:15] Everyone's have a different viewpoint on

[00:15:16] that.

[00:15:16] Yeah.

[00:15:17] Yeah.

[00:15:17] Well, I think, I think the, the fun, which

[00:15:19] we didn't, we didn't actually even

[00:15:20] understand that this would be the case.

[00:15:22] But you know, if you, if you take those,

[00:15:24] the people that need to be supported,

[00:15:25] take away the people that need to be the

[00:15:27] achievers and the, what are we call

[00:15:29] the achievers and the folks because they

[00:15:31] would only use digital to make sure

[00:15:33] that they're going to find their work.

[00:15:34] Though like if they can't get to

[00:15:35] the gym, that's probably, if I can't

[00:15:37] get to the gym, then next option is

[00:15:39] going to be, I'm going to do a digital

[00:15:41] workout of some sort or find a way to

[00:15:43] do a workout.

[00:15:44] They're going to find, they're going to

[00:15:44] find their options.

[00:15:45] They're completely, that's the way that

[00:15:47] they, they're tuned in, which

[00:15:48] probably much less is in the pot, but,

[00:15:50] but the there's the, you know, these

[00:15:52] beginners and learners and the

[00:15:53] biggest of the learners find a going

[00:15:55] just straight into a group exercise

[00:15:56] environment, even though they might

[00:15:57] want to really, really intimidating.

[00:15:59] So having content to be able to

[00:16:01] support those individuals at home,

[00:16:03] like let's say just doing it in

[00:16:05] them and then in their house,

[00:16:07] they now do a yoga session, not

[00:16:09] feeling embarrassed about how, what

[00:16:10] they can't can and can't do.

[00:16:12] Then moving into the physical.

[00:16:13] So the physical store with digital

[00:16:15] content and then moving into the

[00:16:18] physical with a live instructor.

[00:16:20] That's a really nice lead on.

[00:16:21] So if you, if you take our stats

[00:16:23] again from 20, from 2013, we

[00:16:25] actually grow group size portfolios

[00:16:28] by 12% in every single club that

[00:16:31] we've ever been in because of that

[00:16:32] fact, because what we're essentially

[00:16:34] doing is making it easier to consume

[00:16:36] for those learners and beginners

[00:16:38] to be able to consume that type

[00:16:39] of content and naturally everyone

[00:16:41] loves that group exercise of that,

[00:16:44] you know, but if it's functional

[00:16:45] group exercise of that CrossFit, if

[00:16:47] you know Zumba, whatever type format,

[00:16:50] it's always going to exist.

[00:16:51] It's just going to be changing in

[00:16:52] terms of the, uh, how it's how it

[00:16:54] delivers, but that content piece

[00:16:55] really plays an important piece.

[00:16:57] And then once they get used to

[00:16:58] that, if they grow up with that

[00:16:59] is a way of getting into the,

[00:17:01] you know, the light realm and

[00:17:03] connecting with an instructor, we

[00:17:04] actually see that their demand

[00:17:06] for that instructor to be on

[00:17:08] the screen as well.

[00:17:09] So clubs that have actually

[00:17:11] recorded those particular

[00:17:12] instructors and give them the

[00:17:13] ability to be on our back home.

[00:17:15] The usage is significant because

[00:17:17] every, every time they're kind

[00:17:18] of like bullboard, aren't they?

[00:17:19] They're only delivered to those

[00:17:21] 50 people, but though, you

[00:17:22] know, back to, back to my story

[00:17:23] about, you know, the operations

[00:17:25] that I used to run is that

[00:17:26] there's so many people that

[00:17:27] can't actually access that

[00:17:28] class because it's talked out

[00:17:30] because of what any reason.

[00:17:31] So then we actually see them

[00:17:32] then constantly engaging with

[00:17:33] that individual online and

[00:17:36] physically.

[00:17:36] So they kind of become a

[00:17:37] little bit more rock star

[00:17:38] orientated.

[00:17:39] I always go back and always

[00:17:40] give the analogy to a lot of

[00:17:41] operators about Disney Plus.

[00:17:43] So the original kind of premise

[00:17:44] of Disney Plus was that they

[00:17:46] were seeing that they were in

[00:17:47] a, in an attention economy,

[00:17:49] but they didn't have control of

[00:17:50] their own channels.

[00:17:51] So they wanted to control

[00:17:52] their own channels and then

[00:17:54] see if that grew park attendance

[00:17:56] was the original premise.

[00:17:57] Of course, we're in 90s

[00:17:58] till now it's come as a

[00:17:59] subscription.

[00:18:00] But if you, if you take the

[00:18:01] stats of someone that has

[00:18:03] engaged content, then goes to

[00:18:04] a park, then they're more

[00:18:06] than likely to increase the

[00:18:08] content consumption of Disney

[00:18:09] by 50%.

[00:18:10] It's exactly the same in

[00:18:12] fitness.

[00:18:12] If I, if I, if I see you

[00:18:14] online, Eric, and I do a

[00:18:15] session with you, let's call it

[00:18:17] a CrossFit session.

[00:18:18] And then I do yours, your

[00:18:20] session with you physically.

[00:18:21] I'm 50% more likely to use you

[00:18:23] do that session again with

[00:18:24] you.

[00:18:24] So it, it's a real powerful

[00:18:26] tool to can, you know,

[00:18:27] bring the digital physical

[00:18:29] together.

[00:18:29] Yeah.

[00:18:30] Who, uh, if you're going to

[00:18:31] give like shiny examples of

[00:18:32] who's doing it really well,

[00:18:34] you know, within your, your

[00:18:35] partnership, and I'm curious,

[00:18:37] like globally, like in what

[00:18:39] regions of the world, what

[00:18:41] types of brands, like you

[00:18:43] mentioned CrossFit, is it

[00:18:44] boutique?

[00:18:44] Is it, you know, large box

[00:18:46] gym, like, yeah, I sense like

[00:18:48] what's working well.

[00:18:50] No, I think, I think, I

[00:18:51] think SmartFit need the

[00:18:52] critics that they've done very

[00:18:53] well.

[00:18:54] So I would say it took for

[00:18:55] digital as a component of how

[00:18:58] they, so SmartFit do the

[00:18:59] traditional strategy or

[00:19:01] influencer led people that

[00:19:02] they can access into the, in

[00:19:04] the gym.

[00:19:05] They're all following their,

[00:19:06] you know, they're following

[00:19:07] their fitness journey.

[00:19:08] If they do, they produce, you

[00:19:09] know, eight to 12 titles every

[00:19:11] single day and they're running

[00:19:12] around about, I think that I

[00:19:13] can say that because they're

[00:19:14] IPO'd, you know, around about

[00:19:15] 48 million a year from, from

[00:19:18] digital.

[00:19:18] So, so doing great things.

[00:19:20] But then you've got, you

[00:19:21] know, the RSG group, so in

[00:19:23] based in, based out of

[00:19:24] Germany and of course in

[00:19:25] Gold's Gym as well.

[00:19:26] And basically they, they,

[00:19:28] they do, they were the one

[00:19:29] with probably the innovators,

[00:19:31] original innovators to go,

[00:19:32] look, we're going to take

[00:19:33] content inside the clubs and

[00:19:34] outside the clubs and have

[00:19:35] that as a consistent

[00:19:36] experience.

[00:19:37] They've benefited, of course,

[00:19:38] significantly from doing so

[00:19:39] because they were able to add

[00:19:41] so much value to their, to

[00:19:42] their customers and bounce

[00:19:43] back so much better from,

[00:19:45] from that.

[00:19:46] And then, you know, but then,

[00:19:48] and then, so, so I'd say the

[00:19:49] big box, big box gym should

[00:19:51] probably execute it more from

[00:19:52] a monetary means, but then,

[00:19:53] you know, the likes of like

[00:19:54] nine round has done an

[00:19:55] amazing job.

[00:19:56] Like I, you know, just

[00:19:57] talking to Shannon and the

[00:19:58] team, you know, they've got

[00:19:59] half of the amount of people

[00:20:00] engaging with digital every

[00:20:01] single week.

[00:20:02] But again, because of that

[00:20:03] persona led strategy, you

[00:20:04] think about those local kind

[00:20:05] of boutiquey box and they've

[00:20:07] got, you know, maybe four or

[00:20:08] five instructors making sure

[00:20:09] that those people are actually

[00:20:10] on that channel to engage

[00:20:12] that, that hub of, you know,

[00:20:13] 300 to 800 members is so

[00:20:16] critical.

[00:20:17] So everyone's got their

[00:20:18] different version and I

[00:20:19] guess how we, you know, I

[00:20:20] know we always go back to

[00:20:21] the numbers, you know, in

[00:20:22] terms of how big is

[00:20:23] successful.

[00:20:24] I think the big box has

[00:20:25] probably done the best

[00:20:26] because they've got a larger

[00:20:27] database.

[00:20:28] And then what we realized is

[00:20:29] we can have so much more

[00:20:30] success when we're talking

[00:20:31] to large databases.

[00:20:32] Like we were working with the

[00:20:33] likes of Hilton and other

[00:20:34] hotels and it's, you know,

[00:20:36] their databases are just

[00:20:38] like astronomical compared to

[00:20:40] one of, one of that

[00:20:41] fitness, but you know, and so

[00:20:43] we've done well being able to

[00:20:44] commercialize databases in

[00:20:46] that regard, but it would

[00:20:47] be, you know, like it's

[00:20:48] fundamentally is, are you

[00:20:50] looking at LTV, you know, in

[00:20:51] terms of making sure that

[00:20:53] your, your customer lifetime

[00:20:54] value is increasing or are

[00:20:56] you looking at as your own

[00:20:57] commercial needs?

[00:20:58] So yeah, those will be my

[00:21:00] examples of how my.

[00:21:01] Awesome.

[00:21:01] And have you noticed anything

[00:21:03] and kind of getting back to

[00:21:04] the trends and content

[00:21:05] consumption, but any, any

[00:21:07] significant trends you've seen

[00:21:08] as far as like the age

[00:21:10] groups, demographics or

[00:21:12] way it's consumed, like, you

[00:21:13] know, is it an app?

[00:21:14] Is it, you know, streaming?

[00:21:16] Like what, what do you, what

[00:21:17] are some of the eye-opening

[00:21:18] things that you've

[00:21:19] recognized or the past?

[00:21:20] Good broad question, Eric.

[00:21:21] You've done this before.

[00:21:22] Yeah.

[00:21:22] Let's start off, Seth.

[00:21:23] Really please say the, the

[00:21:24] first, the training, the

[00:21:25] training that we've seen

[00:21:26] mostly, we actually posted

[00:21:27] about this as strength and

[00:21:28] wellness have become huge,

[00:21:30] huge category.

[00:21:31] So like, you know, it was

[00:21:32] always probably I'd say more

[00:21:33] traditional group exercise.

[00:21:35] Pit was there, yoga was

[00:21:37] there, Pilates was there as

[00:21:38] the, may probably major big

[00:21:39] four that, and that's been

[00:21:41] like that for 10 years.

[00:21:42] The, the strength and wellness

[00:21:44] thing has probably been the

[00:21:44] biggest change that we've

[00:21:46] ever seen within our platform.

[00:21:47] You know, and again, we're

[00:21:48] doing 25 million for this

[00:21:50] experience.

[00:21:50] So we, so we've got a

[00:21:51] pretty good handle on, on

[00:21:52] what, what that trend kind

[00:21:54] of highlights and you know,

[00:21:55] so 40% of overall platform

[00:21:58] plays are on, are on

[00:21:59] strength and then, and then,

[00:22:01] and then 20% is about as

[00:22:03] wellness and that, and that

[00:22:04] has just been so rapid.

[00:22:05] We've actually got, it's so

[00:22:06] broad now that we have to

[00:22:07] break it out.

[00:22:08] So, you know, cause we've got

[00:22:09] sleep stories, we've got

[00:22:10] meditation, we've got

[00:22:12] inspirational, you know,

[00:22:14] conversation.

[00:22:14] So we're trying to break that

[00:22:15] out because it's just too big

[00:22:17] as its own category, but

[00:22:18] that's probably been the

[00:22:18] huge shift.

[00:22:20] And I think, you know, if

[00:22:20] we're looking at demographic

[00:22:22] what's driven that is

[00:22:23] naturally a male on a, on

[00:22:24] a, on a platform would be

[00:22:27] actually going to strength

[00:22:28] anyway, but it's the

[00:22:29] females rate of like how

[00:22:31] many, like it's, I'd say

[00:22:32] it's about 70% now that are

[00:22:35] female oriented to the

[00:22:36] strength programming that,

[00:22:37] that Wix has, or the

[00:22:39] or the content that the

[00:22:40] operators are creating and

[00:22:42] they're following.

[00:22:43] And then the wellness stuff,

[00:22:44] which is interesting, like

[00:22:45] no one really has got into

[00:22:46] the wellness as an

[00:22:48] operator.

[00:22:49] They're very, it's all very

[00:22:50] much third party content

[00:22:51] library, which I think is a

[00:22:53] great thing for third party

[00:22:54] content because it just

[00:22:54] supports it.

[00:22:55] Like, you know, how big

[00:22:56] emphasis is when we're

[00:22:57] working with any operator

[00:22:58] is what do you want to be

[00:22:59] good at?

[00:23:00] You know, like it doesn't

[00:23:01] make sense for nine rounds

[00:23:02] go start doing meditation

[00:23:04] stories, but it does make

[00:23:05] sense for them to do,

[00:23:07] you know, kickboxing and

[00:23:08] staying in the combat side.

[00:23:10] And so the club groups that

[00:23:11] are most of our groups are

[00:23:12] doing that focusing on what

[00:23:13] that that is for them and

[00:23:15] then supporting this with

[00:23:16] a lot of the wellness stuff,

[00:23:18] which I think is just a

[00:23:19] great trend for the

[00:23:20] bitumen of our industry.

[00:23:21] If we're getting people,

[00:23:22] you know, lifting more

[00:23:24] focusing on their strengths

[00:23:25] and focusing on them,

[00:23:26] their muscle gains as well

[00:23:27] as supporting it with great

[00:23:28] recovery.

[00:23:29] I think we're in a good

[00:23:30] space if the stream

[00:23:31] continues.

[00:23:32] Yeah, you know, it's a

[00:23:34] just in a podcast on

[00:23:35] industry kind of report.

[00:23:38] One of the things that was

[00:23:39] I'm not shocked of it

[00:23:40] because it's been a

[00:23:41] conversation topic here

[00:23:43] numerous times, but women

[00:23:44] in strength training and

[00:23:46] you know how crazy it

[00:23:48] is like the I'm going to

[00:23:51] I'm going to screw this up,

[00:23:52] but I'm going to give me

[00:23:53] some some latitude here.

[00:23:54] People like the hashtag

[00:23:56] on TikTok of girls who

[00:23:58] girls who left got

[00:23:59] something over 10 billion

[00:24:00] views.

[00:24:01] You said right now I

[00:24:02] thought it's huge.

[00:24:03] It's it's amazing.

[00:24:04] So when you look at that

[00:24:05] trend, like any insights

[00:24:07] I mean, obviously, you know,

[00:24:08] social media has a big

[00:24:09] part of it.

[00:24:09] Well, what do you

[00:24:10] what are your takeaways?

[00:24:12] We actually track YouTube

[00:24:13] a lot as well in regards

[00:24:14] to just how much they

[00:24:16] upload the fitness or

[00:24:17] content.

[00:24:17] So every and it's

[00:24:19] broad is really broad.

[00:24:20] But the thing is what's

[00:24:21] it one is one

[00:24:22] perabyte that the new

[00:24:23] thing isn't it of a

[00:24:24] content is uploaded

[00:24:26] fitness content is

[00:24:27] uploaded on YouTube per

[00:24:28] day and then right

[00:24:29] and it's 60 to 70

[00:24:31] percent of that is

[00:24:32] course influencer based

[00:24:34] out of those influencers

[00:24:35] 80 percent of females

[00:24:36] and then from that all

[00:24:37] of them are pretty much

[00:24:39] having massive strength

[00:24:40] element.

[00:24:41] So you kind of go well

[00:24:42] looking at you know,

[00:24:43] I think YouTube is the

[00:24:44] main media that we have

[00:24:45] these days right.

[00:24:46] I find myself actually

[00:24:47] just watching YouTube

[00:24:48] and being able to

[00:24:49] control my own thing

[00:24:50] then going on traditional

[00:24:51] hopefully not sponsored

[00:24:52] by any media.

[00:24:53] But I find it easier

[00:24:55] for me to be able to

[00:24:56] engage with in you

[00:24:58] know that that I think

[00:24:59] alone is probably what

[00:25:01] we need to start and

[00:25:02] we're focusing on a lot

[00:25:03] more as what we're

[00:25:03] seeing uploaded

[00:25:05] literally comes to our

[00:25:06] trend probably within

[00:25:07] the next six to nine

[00:25:08] months.

[00:25:09] And that trend is

[00:25:10] strong right now

[00:25:11] if you're looking at

[00:25:12] you know YouTube

[00:25:13] influencers pushing

[00:25:14] strength the importance

[00:25:16] of strength all of

[00:25:17] that type of stuff

[00:25:18] and it shows the

[00:25:18] power of what they

[00:25:19] have you know as a

[00:25:20] collective as well.

[00:25:21] Yeah well you know

[00:25:22] I'll sit here and eat

[00:25:23] crow because I've made

[00:25:24] fun of fitness

[00:25:25] influencers for years.

[00:25:26] We really are making

[00:25:27] like a significant

[00:25:28] positive impact on

[00:25:30] them.

[00:25:30] I mean there's nothing

[00:25:31] better than strength

[00:25:32] like you know people

[00:25:33] getting health longevity

[00:25:35] all those things like

[00:25:36] there's nothing better

[00:25:36] than strength training

[00:25:37] in my opinion.

[00:25:38] And so it's really

[00:25:39] cool to see.

[00:25:40] And I think

[00:25:41] I think it's amazing

[00:25:41] to see and I think

[00:25:42] from an injury

[00:25:43] point of view or the

[00:25:44] you know there's so

[00:25:44] many benefits to

[00:25:45] strength training.

[00:25:46] So it's it's it's

[00:25:48] as I said

[00:25:48] betterment from the

[00:25:49] industry.

[00:25:50] I think it's a good

[00:25:50] thing.

[00:25:50] I think everyone

[00:25:52] probably is pushing

[00:25:52] their boats into this

[00:25:53] you know like

[00:25:54] club groups are

[00:25:55] changing how much I

[00:25:56] saw when I was

[00:25:57] walking around clubs

[00:25:59] at URSA in terms

[00:26:00] of you know a lot

[00:26:00] of the Gold's Gym

[00:26:01] have taken out their

[00:26:02] cycling studios

[00:26:03] completely and put in

[00:26:04] strength lifting

[00:26:05] equipment and stuff.

[00:26:06] You know it's

[00:26:07] it's a trend that

[00:26:08] everyone's kind of

[00:26:09] pushing towards.

[00:26:10] So I think it's a good thing.

[00:26:11] Yeah so I feel like

[00:26:12] I can't get away

[00:26:13] from any conversation

[00:26:14] without artificial

[00:26:15] intelligence but

[00:26:16] let's just do it.

[00:26:17] Yeah yeah let's do it.

[00:26:18] Yeah.

[00:26:19] What you know when

[00:26:20] it comes to content

[00:26:21] creation you know

[00:26:22] AI is is

[00:26:23] playing a significant

[00:26:24] role now

[00:26:26] but it's also

[00:26:27] going to continue

[00:26:27] to play a much bigger

[00:26:28] role.

[00:26:29] I mean the acceleration

[00:26:30] I don't think people

[00:26:31] even realize like

[00:26:32] how fast this is going.

[00:26:34] Yeah you know what do you

[00:26:35] this broad question again.

[00:26:37] Maybe let me put a

[00:26:38] time frame on it in like

[00:26:39] five years 2029

[00:26:41] right when you look at

[00:26:42] how AI has changed

[00:26:44] how we make content

[00:26:45] how we distribute

[00:26:46] content how

[00:26:47] how we engage with

[00:26:48] content like

[00:26:49] what do you think

[00:26:50] are going to be some

[00:26:51] of the significant

[00:26:51] changes that we see

[00:26:52] in that period of time.

[00:26:54] No I think I think

[00:26:55] you'll be able to go

[00:26:56] I know we keep

[00:26:56] the buzzword is

[00:26:57] hyper personalization

[00:26:59] but I think it

[00:26:59] is going to be

[00:27:00] hyper personalization.

[00:27:01] You know I I

[00:27:02] we follow Disney

[00:27:03] a lot in terms of

[00:27:04] what and we have

[00:27:05] actually been talking to

[00:27:06] runway a lot who is

[00:27:07] an AI content generating

[00:27:08] talk.

[00:27:09] The issue

[00:27:10] well I'll tell you

[00:27:11] where the issue is

[00:27:11] right now

[00:27:12] the issue with

[00:27:12] content creation

[00:27:13] right now

[00:27:13] and I know your

[00:27:14] source or

[00:27:15] is the fact that

[00:27:16] when you're doing

[00:27:16] like when you're

[00:27:17] doing something

[00:27:18] in regards to

[00:27:18] the fitness side

[00:27:19] it kind of like

[00:27:20] the five percent

[00:27:20] going to take

[00:27:21] forever to solve

[00:27:21] and that might be

[00:27:22] a two year three

[00:27:23] year thing

[00:27:23] which is you don't

[00:27:24] actually know.

[00:27:25] So we've we've done

[00:27:26] examples we've tried

[00:27:27] to run

[00:27:28] with with runway

[00:27:30] to be able to go

[00:27:31] look can we do

[00:27:32] you know

[00:27:33] Angie Garcia

[00:27:34] doing this

[00:27:35] workouts

[00:27:36] in this background

[00:27:37] or rest of it.

[00:27:37] But the issue is

[00:27:38] with fitness is

[00:27:39] it can't if it

[00:27:40] gets itself wrong

[00:27:41] and it does all the time

[00:27:43] and you know

[00:27:43] they'll start doing

[00:27:44] something completely

[00:27:45] different like

[00:27:46] you know running

[00:27:46] around in a circle

[00:27:47] or doing something

[00:27:48] very where it is

[00:27:49] quite a change to me

[00:27:50] honest.

[00:27:50] But it's not right

[00:27:51] in terms of actually

[00:27:52] how the structure

[00:27:53] of the exercise

[00:27:54] but then you can't

[00:27:54] just change that part.

[00:27:56] You have to change

[00:27:56] the whole thing.

[00:27:57] So it always at the moment

[00:27:58] it's always running

[00:27:59] with issue

[00:28:00] and it's going to be solved

[00:28:01] like I totally

[00:28:03] you know if we talked

[00:28:03] about the five year

[00:28:04] time period it will be solved.

[00:28:05] And so I think

[00:28:06] I think naturally

[00:28:07] a user is going to be able

[00:28:09] similar to movie

[00:28:10] is going to be able

[00:28:11] to run its own thing.

[00:28:12] So hey I want

[00:28:14] you know Eric

[00:28:15] to be doing this session

[00:28:17] in Malibu

[00:28:19] and I want to

[00:28:20] you know

[00:28:21] I need to see it

[00:28:22] through his eye

[00:28:22] or something like that.

[00:28:23] You know it's

[00:28:24] we're not that far away

[00:28:26] from that.

[00:28:26] They've got to solve

[00:28:27] this issue in terms

[00:28:28] of programming.

[00:28:29] No yeah

[00:28:29] and you know they always

[00:28:30] do the whole

[00:28:31] well if you can solve

[00:28:31] the 60 seconds

[00:28:32] you can solve an hour.

[00:28:34] But in reality

[00:28:35] that's not true

[00:28:35] because you know what

[00:28:36] what Disney and Runway

[00:28:37] are doing right now

[00:28:38] is they're actually doing it

[00:28:39] as a way of

[00:28:40] hey I want to watch

[00:28:41] they always give

[00:28:42] the example of Star Wars.

[00:28:43] So I want to watch

[00:28:44] Star Wars

[00:28:44] but I want to watch

[00:28:45] only through

[00:28:46] give me a Star Wars character

[00:28:47] show my knowledge

[00:28:48] my son will be embarrassed.

[00:28:49] Luke Skywalker

[00:28:50] I only want to see

[00:28:51] the movie through

[00:28:51] Luke Skywalker

[00:28:52] and I want to increase

[00:28:54] the movie by two hours.

[00:28:55] You're going to be able

[00:28:56] to do that

[00:28:56] but the thing is

[00:28:57] you need to still

[00:28:58] create the content

[00:28:59] for it to be able

[00:29:00] to pack up these things.

[00:29:01] So I don't

[00:29:03] I guess in five years time

[00:29:04] we'll probably create content

[00:29:07] users will be able to

[00:29:08] specify

[00:29:09] literally tell

[00:29:11] what to do

[00:29:12] but you're still going to need

[00:29:13] the formats to be done

[00:29:15] though I think you'll

[00:29:16] be able to change backgrounds

[00:29:17] you'd be able to change

[00:29:18] the way

[00:29:18] the way the camera works

[00:29:20] you'd be able to change

[00:29:20] so much stuff

[00:29:22] but the fundamental is

[00:29:23] that you're still going to have

[00:29:24] to have

[00:29:25] the core content

[00:29:26] and of course

[00:29:26] as I as I alluded to

[00:29:28] when we were speaking

[00:29:29] it's all about persona.

[00:29:30] So you know it's

[00:29:31] you're going to still want to have

[00:29:32] to have that character

[00:29:34] that's the key component

[00:29:35] to be able to create

[00:29:36] the content.

[00:29:36] I really went deep into that

[00:29:38] but they're looking at it

[00:29:39] heavily Eric as you can imagine.

[00:29:41] Yeah yeah you got it right.

[00:29:42] I mean one of the other things too

[00:29:44] I mean this bridges

[00:29:45] into VR AR

[00:29:46] MR but I was

[00:29:48] I was at

[00:29:48] HRSA Health

[00:29:50] Fitness Association now

[00:29:51] that conference

[00:29:52] and after I had the day off

[00:29:54] yesterday or the after

[00:29:55] before I traveled

[00:29:55] I went to the Apple store

[00:29:56] I ended up seeing

[00:29:57] Dr. Paul Bedford there

[00:29:58] testing out the

[00:30:00] the vision.

[00:30:00] Oh yeah.

[00:30:01] Headset.

[00:30:02] And so that was my first

[00:30:03] experience with

[00:30:04] AR right.

[00:30:05] Altered reality

[00:30:06] mixed reality.

[00:30:08] Impressive.

[00:30:09] Yeah.

[00:30:09] Heavy right.

[00:30:10] Physically heavy form factor

[00:30:12] was challenge

[00:30:13] but how much time and energy

[00:30:16] are you guys putting into

[00:30:17] that segment.

[00:30:18] It's something like

[00:30:19] you know it was all the rage

[00:30:20] it was all the talk.

[00:30:21] I know.

[00:30:22] But now it's going to go quiet.

[00:30:23] Well we're not

[00:30:25] Oculus.

[00:30:26] We're not Oculus first kind now

[00:30:27] there was probably us and Zumba.

[00:30:28] They spend a lot of time

[00:30:31] trying to create the content

[00:30:32] or trying to find a way to

[00:30:34] be able to play it

[00:30:35] because of course the obvious

[00:30:36] thought pattern was

[00:30:37] we can make it so much more

[00:30:38] interactive.

[00:30:39] You know we can

[00:30:40] show heart rate figures

[00:30:41] we can show all of this

[00:30:42] type of stuff and it can be

[00:30:43] personalized and

[00:30:44] and

[00:30:45] I think it's probably fair

[00:30:46] to say it was complete

[00:30:47] flop on the fitness side

[00:30:49] because you know trying to

[00:30:50] do a burpee with a

[00:30:51] with a headset like that

[00:30:52] or doing anything like that

[00:30:53] is near impossible.

[00:30:54] But then you know the whole

[00:30:55] thought pattern for us was

[00:30:57] how do we just make people

[00:30:58] move more.

[00:30:58] So you know how do we

[00:30:59] do we play do we play in

[00:31:00] the game space a little bit

[00:31:02] more but nothing really

[00:31:03] kicked off in the fitness

[00:31:04] it went down more

[00:31:05] entertainment route.

[00:31:06] Yes.

[00:31:06] It's a with Ableton Vision

[00:31:09] I kind of would say

[00:31:10] it's the same like

[00:31:11] is it going to be more

[00:31:12] of a productivity

[00:31:13] tool slash entertainment

[00:31:15] tool then it will be

[00:31:16] fitness because you know

[00:31:17] I've tried doing a workout

[00:31:19] with that on or just

[00:31:20] just doing simple

[00:31:20] movements and it's not

[00:31:22] good is it?

[00:31:22] You know I imagine anyone

[00:31:24] that's tried it can

[00:31:24] probably understand what I'm

[00:31:25] what I'm going through.

[00:31:26] It's not it's not

[00:31:28] there for movement.

[00:31:29] And I guess I don't know

[00:31:30] you know I'm going a

[00:31:31] little bit completely

[00:31:32] off script here but

[00:31:34] I don't I don't like the

[00:31:35] idea of us becoming

[00:31:36] the robot you know

[00:31:37] I'd rather robots

[00:31:38] be get created and you

[00:31:39] know let's get Apple

[00:31:40] Vision Pro to have hands

[00:31:42] and legs and do the

[00:31:43] stuff that we don't want

[00:31:44] to do so we can think

[00:31:45] about bigger things to

[00:31:46] solve like that my view

[00:31:48] but and so my answer

[00:31:50] is I don't really know

[00:31:51] how much it's going to

[00:31:52] play an impact because

[00:31:53] I still don't think

[00:31:54] the fitness experience

[00:31:55] is very good and

[00:31:56] and unless you know

[00:31:58] they get to the glass

[00:31:59] which you know

[00:32:00] there's a lot of talk

[00:32:01] at the moment in terms

[00:32:01] of just natural glasses

[00:32:02] to wear but even people

[00:32:04] are working out of

[00:32:04] glasses in the gym.

[00:32:05] How often do they

[00:32:06] take them off?

[00:32:07] So still far off

[00:32:08] in terms of fall

[00:32:09] factor for me.

[00:32:09] Yeah I agree.

[00:32:10] I think I mean from

[00:32:11] what I saw you know

[00:32:13] education,

[00:32:14] business applications,

[00:32:16] entertainment lights out

[00:32:18] it's going to be

[00:32:18] on rhythm.

[00:32:19] I agree.

[00:32:19] But that also means

[00:32:20] that I'm with you

[00:32:21] like I don't want to

[00:32:22] see us connected to

[00:32:22] these things all

[00:32:23] at once.

[00:32:24] It seems like it's

[00:32:25] almost in there.

[00:32:25] I've got young kids

[00:32:27] and my seven year old

[00:32:29] you know anything like this

[00:32:30] and of course you know

[00:32:31] I'm very fortunate to

[00:32:33] get a lot of the stuff

[00:32:34] so I can play around

[00:32:34] with it in my home

[00:32:35] and stuff like that

[00:32:36] and you know how addictive

[00:32:37] it is for a seven

[00:32:40] year old brain.

[00:32:40] It scares me.

[00:32:41] It really does.

[00:32:42] You know it's straight away

[00:32:43] he was like you know

[00:32:44] he didn't want to take it off

[00:32:45] behavior change

[00:32:46] all this type of stuff

[00:32:47] which is just I just

[00:32:48] yeah and I know

[00:32:49] we're talking about

[00:32:49] seven year olds

[00:32:50] so it's maybe more of

[00:32:51] an adult thing

[00:32:52] so you know and

[00:32:53] productivity tool

[00:32:54] but I think you know

[00:32:55] the brain is the brain right.

[00:32:56] We will get addicted

[00:32:58] to that form factor

[00:32:59] and we won't be doing a lot

[00:33:00] or just be you know

[00:33:01] sitting and maybe standing

[00:33:02] if we're lucky which

[00:33:04] you know I think

[00:33:04] I think it's a threat

[00:33:05] to our industry.

[00:33:06] We've got to you know

[00:33:06] make sure people are off

[00:33:07] devices and give them

[00:33:08] what we do well

[00:33:09] which is deliver

[00:33:11] great experiences

[00:33:11] and motivate give people

[00:33:13] support and inspire people.

[00:33:14] Yeah yeah.

[00:33:15] Awesome man.

[00:33:15] Let's talk about

[00:33:16] the podcast a little bit

[00:33:17] the Wexler podcast.

[00:33:18] So what is it

[00:33:20] a 40 something

[00:33:21] episodes you got now?

[00:33:22] Something like that.

[00:33:23] Yeah.

[00:33:24] Yeah.

[00:33:25] 37.

[00:33:25] 37 episodes it looks like.

[00:33:27] So you've been doing this

[00:33:28] for a little bit.

[00:33:29] What made you start

[00:33:30] a podcast?

[00:33:30] What was the interest there?

[00:33:32] Good question.

[00:33:33] It was COVID.

[00:33:34] It was I think similar to

[00:33:36] again going right back

[00:33:37] to how I started

[00:33:38] the podcast is

[00:33:39] sharing information.

[00:33:40] You know we've always been big

[00:33:41] on sharing information

[00:33:42] but we're also

[00:33:43] realizing that

[00:33:44] you know a lot of people

[00:33:45] knew Wexler

[00:33:45] and you know

[00:33:46] a lot of people knew

[00:33:47] that we worked

[00:33:47] biggest pub groups

[00:33:48] around the world

[00:33:49] but not a lot of people

[00:33:50] knew how we

[00:33:52] was helping people succeed.

[00:33:53] So originally and this was

[00:33:55] of course COVID time as well

[00:33:56] which you know

[00:33:57] it was a lot easier

[00:33:57] when we were able to walk around

[00:33:59] trade shows and talk to people

[00:34:00] and all the rest of it.

[00:34:00] So we went

[00:34:01] that we should

[00:34:02] we should actually share

[00:34:02] some of these stories about

[00:34:04] to help other people

[00:34:05] in terms of

[00:34:06] how to be relevant

[00:34:07] to customers digitally.

[00:34:08] It kind of

[00:34:09] cleared it from the first.

[00:34:10] We just keep

[00:34:11] you know so

[00:34:11] it was kind of the one thing

[00:34:13] we only thought

[00:34:13] we would just do it for

[00:34:15] a few just to share

[00:34:16] you know stories

[00:34:17] you know I think we had

[00:34:18] Nair is the original one

[00:34:19] from Evolution Wellness

[00:34:20] sharing his story

[00:34:21] and you know

[00:34:22] Garrett from Exponential

[00:34:24] you know a lot of the

[00:34:25] kind of traditional people

[00:34:26] that were focusing

[00:34:26] on digital at that time

[00:34:28] but it's kind of evolved

[00:34:29] to just the business side

[00:34:30] of things as well

[00:34:31] and of course

[00:34:31] you know similar to yours

[00:34:32] you know you get

[00:34:33] a lot of entrepreneurs

[00:34:34] you know a lot of people

[00:34:34] asking

[00:34:35] the different guests

[00:34:36] to interview.

[00:34:37] So look

[00:34:38] I feel like

[00:34:39] you know

[00:34:40] and my need to share

[00:34:41] as much knowledge

[00:34:42] as possible

[00:34:43] similar to what you're doing

[00:34:44] and I thank you for doing it

[00:34:45] because I think it's important

[00:34:46] that we do

[00:34:47] I should

[00:34:47] I should play my part.

[00:34:48] So

[00:34:48] Hint white the wex

[00:34:49] the podcast

[00:34:50] doing this.

[00:34:51] I should have big

[00:34:51] the massive

[00:34:52] way more

[00:34:52] the marketing team

[00:34:53] would have probably

[00:34:53] wanted a whole lot more

[00:34:55] even more kudos.

[00:34:56] They're the ones

[00:34:56] that do it all

[00:34:57] I'm just the one

[00:34:58] the face in front of it

[00:34:58] but

[00:34:59] yeah

[00:34:59] it's

[00:35:00] that's

[00:35:01] that's my

[00:35:02] reason why we're still continuing.

[00:35:03] Yeah

[00:35:03] very cool

[00:35:04] what are some of the

[00:35:05] unexpected benefits

[00:35:06] of podcasting?

[00:35:07] Yeah

[00:35:07] I don't think you can get it

[00:35:08] really

[00:35:08] I think

[00:35:08] that you relate so much.

[00:35:10] I love

[00:35:11] people's entrepreneurial

[00:35:12] journey

[00:35:13] and I think

[00:35:14] you know

[00:35:14] entrepreneurs

[00:35:15] by their nature

[00:35:16] just want to get into it

[00:35:17] so when you have

[00:35:17] a business meeting

[00:35:18] it's let's go

[00:35:18] this is the agenda

[00:35:20] all about efficiency

[00:35:21] and it was so nice

[00:35:22] to hear people's stories

[00:35:24] not under

[00:35:25] you know

[00:35:27] a lot of people

[00:35:27] engage with Wexler

[00:35:28] from a

[00:35:29] okay I want to solve digital

[00:35:30] so I'm going to bring

[00:35:31] Wexler in

[00:35:31] so then you start

[00:35:32] talking about digital

[00:35:33] but it's so nice to hear

[00:35:34] all about their

[00:35:35] different backgrounds

[00:35:35] and their different

[00:35:36] entrepreneurial journeys

[00:35:37] that like

[00:35:37] that actually inspired me

[00:35:38] significantly

[00:35:39] and I don't

[00:35:40] I actually think

[00:35:41] we share enough

[00:35:41] like I know you do

[00:35:42] you do a great job of that

[00:35:43] but I don't think

[00:35:44] you know

[00:35:44] there's so many amazing

[00:35:45] personalities in our industry

[00:35:47] that have done a

[00:35:48] mafiosing things

[00:35:49] and conquered a lot of

[00:35:50] you know

[00:35:50] overcome a lot of odds

[00:35:52] that

[00:35:52] we just don't know

[00:35:53] you know

[00:35:53] I was talking to Akshar

[00:35:55] from FitPass

[00:35:56] and you know

[00:35:56] his background

[00:35:57] and how he

[00:35:58] you know

[00:35:59] it was just

[00:36:00] it's an amazing

[00:36:00] it's an amazing story

[00:36:01] so

[00:36:02] I get really

[00:36:03] inspired by that

[00:36:03] so I've definitely

[00:36:04] benefited a lot from

[00:36:06] hearing other people's

[00:36:07] entrepreneurial

[00:36:08] journeys as well

[00:36:08] which I imagine

[00:36:09] you have as well

[00:36:09] what's your

[00:36:10] being your big takeaway

[00:36:11] oh geez man

[00:36:12] you know

[00:36:12] I just love it

[00:36:13] I really do

[00:36:14] I think

[00:36:15] you know

[00:36:15] I'm so

[00:36:16] I think half my life

[00:36:17] is in podcasting now

[00:36:18] so you know

[00:36:19] this podcast

[00:36:20] and

[00:36:20] Alpha Tech

[00:36:21] scripted

[00:36:21] and

[00:36:22] yeah

[00:36:22] podcasts I help with

[00:36:23] and the podcast collective

[00:36:24] it's like

[00:36:24] I just love the medium

[00:36:26] I love

[00:36:27] how it's so adaptable

[00:36:28] to one's goals

[00:36:30] really

[00:36:30] you know

[00:36:31] if you want it

[00:36:31] for business development

[00:36:32] it's a great tool

[00:36:33] right

[00:36:33] if you want to build authority

[00:36:35] it's a great tool

[00:36:36] if you want to

[00:36:36] you know

[00:36:37] actually do

[00:36:38] you know

[00:36:38] go direct to consumer

[00:36:39] and build a mass audience

[00:36:40] that is that

[00:36:41] there are 42

[00:36:42] take time

[00:36:42] doesn't happen overnight

[00:36:43] people use

[00:36:44] but there's just a lot to it

[00:36:45] but I think my favorite part about it is

[00:36:47] just on a human level

[00:36:48] is like

[00:36:48] I very rarely

[00:36:50] nowadays get the opportunity

[00:36:51] to sit down

[00:36:52] even though we're not

[00:36:52] in the same room physically

[00:36:54] is that

[00:36:55] I don't have my phone on

[00:36:56] I don't even know where it is right now

[00:36:57] you know

[00:36:57] you know

[00:36:58] I like

[00:36:59] I'm just fully engaged

[00:37:00] in what Paul Rebohman is saying

[00:37:02] and your story

[00:37:03] and

[00:37:03] I just feel like that's very

[00:37:05] it's almost

[00:37:06] it's therapeutic in a way

[00:37:07] because

[00:37:08] what was stressing me out

[00:37:09] 10 minutes before you

[00:37:10] and I started recording

[00:37:11] I'm not even

[00:37:12] thinking about right now

[00:37:12] yeah

[00:37:13] again

[00:37:13] and

[00:37:14] that's true

[00:37:15] I think that's pretty cool

[00:37:16] and you just build

[00:37:16] really cool relationships

[00:37:17] you know

[00:37:17] you know

[00:37:18] not to many chances

[00:37:19] for people to come to Whitefish, Montana

[00:37:20] where I live

[00:37:21] and I could do this in person

[00:37:22] so thank God that you know

[00:37:23] for mediums like Riverside

[00:37:25] and a lot of other ones

[00:37:25] so

[00:37:26] that's what I love about it

[00:37:27] and

[00:37:27] you know

[00:37:28] I

[00:37:28] I would be

[00:37:29] curious to hear

[00:37:30] because

[00:37:30] about your entrepreneurial journey

[00:37:32] you know

[00:37:32] as you reflect on the ones

[00:37:33] that you listen to

[00:37:34] on your podcast

[00:37:35] and the people you know

[00:37:36] within your network

[00:37:37] or other entrepreneurs

[00:37:38] and executives

[00:37:38] like

[00:37:39] is there any like

[00:37:40] commonality of

[00:37:42] experiences

[00:37:43] like something that

[00:37:44] that everybody seems to have gone through

[00:37:46] or everybody seems to go through

[00:37:47] on a daily basis

[00:37:48] you know

[00:37:48] like they say it's lonely at the top

[00:37:50] or

[00:37:51] hard times

[00:37:51] you know during entrepreneurship

[00:37:53] that people don't quite understand

[00:37:54] like

[00:37:54] you know

[00:37:55] what

[00:37:55] what are some of the commonalities

[00:37:56] that you've strung together?

[00:37:58] I think it's the

[00:37:59] you know

[00:37:59] I actually get asked this question

[00:38:01] a lot in terms of

[00:38:02] like

[00:38:02] like of course

[00:38:03] what advice would you give to entrepreneurs

[00:38:04] and I always say

[00:38:05] you should tell them not to do it

[00:38:07] because

[00:38:07] because

[00:38:08] it is because

[00:38:09] it's so bloody hard

[00:38:10] and then they should get so many nos

[00:38:12] and still want to get through it

[00:38:14] right

[00:38:14] and I think that

[00:38:15] the commonality

[00:38:16] that I've heard from so many people

[00:38:18] so many people told them no

[00:38:19] so many people

[00:38:20] that it was a stupid idea

[00:38:21] so many people

[00:38:22] and they all

[00:38:23] we carried on

[00:38:24] you know what I mean

[00:38:24] and they

[00:38:25] and I think that is probably the

[00:38:26] like

[00:38:27] you know

[00:38:27] you got so much

[00:38:28] you know

[00:38:29] Scott Calloway's quite good at

[00:38:30] highlighting

[00:38:31] three major things

[00:38:32] or

[00:38:32] this is what

[00:38:33] what an entrepreneur should do

[00:38:34] but

[00:38:34] I think it's just that

[00:38:36] grit

[00:38:36] and that determination to succeed

[00:38:38] and see nos

[00:38:40] and keep going

[00:38:41] you know

[00:38:41] and that's

[00:38:42] for me

[00:38:43] has probably been

[00:38:44] what I've kind of gone

[00:38:45] oh okay

[00:38:46] so everyone shared the same thing

[00:38:47] everyone had that

[00:38:48] because you know some

[00:38:49] some

[00:38:49] see so successful

[00:38:51] and you know I've been very fortunate

[00:38:52] to have been a lot of time with

[00:38:54] some of the biggest club operators

[00:38:55] in the world

[00:38:56] and

[00:38:56] you go

[00:38:57] wow

[00:38:57] how did you get to that

[00:38:58] but it didn't start like

[00:39:00] you know they had to

[00:39:00] they had to

[00:39:01] you know

[00:39:01] firstly get over their own hurdles

[00:39:03] for everyone saying no

[00:39:04] then they had to get their own team

[00:39:05] to be able to believe in them

[00:39:06] and then from believing

[00:39:07] and then galing

[00:39:08] and supporting

[00:39:09] and creating great product

[00:39:10] and

[00:39:11] you know

[00:39:12] that's always really inspiring

[00:39:13] but that to me is always the

[00:39:15] essentially that's the cookie cutter

[00:39:16] you know

[00:39:16] everyone gets told no

[00:39:17] so many different times

[00:39:18] they persevere

[00:39:19] they build the team

[00:39:20] the team buys into what they do

[00:39:22] they create great product

[00:39:24] they start to succeed

[00:39:25] and so that

[00:39:25] from a commonality point of view

[00:39:27] is what I've seen

[00:39:27] yeah it's like you got to be smart

[00:39:28] in some ways and dumb in others

[00:39:30] right

[00:39:30] it'll be very easy

[00:39:31] you have to be dumb in some ways

[00:39:32] that like when people keep

[00:39:33] picking you

[00:39:33] you're like

[00:39:33] oh yeah again

[00:39:34] who's going to get back up

[00:39:35] yes

[00:39:36] yeah

[00:39:36] well I support

[00:39:37] I support two startups

[00:39:39] I'm chairman of two startups as well

[00:39:40] and

[00:39:41] it's exactly that

[00:39:42] that's the advice is just

[00:39:43] you just got to keep going

[00:39:45] you know

[00:39:45] like it doesn't

[00:39:46] you know

[00:39:46] everyone's been there where

[00:39:48] you're looking at payroll going

[00:39:49] how do I make that

[00:39:50] or

[00:39:51] you know

[00:39:51] I need to go raise some more money

[00:39:52] to be able to justify my idea

[00:39:54] but

[00:39:55] everyone's done it

[00:39:56] you know

[00:39:56] no one's had a nice ride

[00:39:57] so

[00:39:58] and sometimes

[00:39:59] even if you have a nice ride

[00:40:00] you're able to raise money

[00:40:01] really really quickly

[00:40:02] like you know

[00:40:02] what I've seen a lot in

[00:40:03] and especially in the fitness space

[00:40:05] is they kind of get addicted

[00:40:06] to the capital right

[00:40:07] they actually forget

[00:40:08] to create the great product

[00:40:09] you know

[00:40:10] and so

[00:40:10] you know

[00:40:11] that's what I found interesting as well

[00:40:12] but you know

[00:40:13] I'm not going to chuck your name down on that one

[00:40:14] they probably didn't mention this podcast before

[00:40:16] but

[00:40:16] the

[00:40:17] you know one thing I've also noticed

[00:40:18] is like

[00:40:19] now I'm

[00:40:19] you know we

[00:40:20] the podcast collective

[00:40:21] which is our

[00:40:21] you know kind of modern PR agency

[00:40:23] that it's about eight

[00:40:24] months ago

[00:40:25] almost all my clients

[00:40:27] are founders and entrepreneurs

[00:40:28] and

[00:40:29] I find that

[00:40:31] A. I love working with them

[00:40:33] I mean

[00:40:33] we get it

[00:40:34] like

[00:40:34] scrappiness

[00:40:35] like let's

[00:40:35] you know

[00:40:36] let's figure it out

[00:40:36] doesn't matter

[00:40:37] so how we do it

[00:40:38] let's get it done right

[00:40:39] and

[00:40:40] but they're

[00:40:41] they seem to be the most supportive

[00:40:42] of people who are starting something

[00:40:44] you know

[00:40:44] right

[00:40:45] like

[00:40:45] when they

[00:40:46] you know

[00:40:46] people

[00:40:47] are like oh you're doing

[00:40:48] oh cool well

[00:40:49] yeah let's talk right

[00:40:50] like

[00:40:50] they want to be part of that

[00:40:51] it's just like

[00:40:51] it's almost like this common addiction to

[00:40:54] uh

[00:40:55] like unhealthy levels of suffering

[00:40:57] for the monetary gains

[00:40:58] you know

[00:40:59] there's not a lot that actually

[00:41:01] succeed

[00:41:02] I think

[00:41:02] I think for me it's like

[00:41:04] I want to help you

[00:41:05] you know like

[00:41:05] the reason why I got involved in

[00:41:07] the two startups I did is

[00:41:08] is I want to help you see for

[00:41:10] I

[00:41:11] I wouldn't see your

[00:41:12] Coach Malley says it really well

[00:41:14] he helped me see through walls

[00:41:15] you know

[00:41:15] because I'm like

[00:41:16] don't make the same mistakes that I have

[00:41:18] so you can speed this up

[00:41:19] because

[00:41:20] you know like the

[00:41:21] the Kevin

[00:41:21] as a Kevin Cully references

[00:41:23] every from a

[00:41:24] every time you created

[00:41:25] you create a solution

[00:41:26] you also create a new problem

[00:41:27] so we're going to create problems

[00:41:28] but let's just not repeat the same

[00:41:30] problems

[00:41:31] or same issues that I did

[00:41:32] you know what I mean

[00:41:33] and I think

[00:41:34] not a lot of people

[00:41:35] well you know

[00:41:35] you're

[00:41:35] not a lot of people have gone through

[00:41:37] that

[00:41:37] you know like

[00:41:38] it's entrepreneurial

[00:41:39] it was

[00:41:40] an entrepreneur was a

[00:41:41] as a

[00:41:42] you know

[00:41:42] I don't know whatever

[00:41:43] it's quite lonely right

[00:41:44] unless

[00:41:45] but when you've met an entrepreneur

[00:41:46] that's done the same thing

[00:41:47] you go

[00:41:48] you understand what I've been through

[00:41:50] or you can appreciate

[00:41:51] what I've done

[00:41:52] you know

[00:41:52] rather than

[00:41:53] the traditional corporate job

[00:41:54] not taking anything away from

[00:41:56] people that

[00:41:57] do corporate jobs

[00:41:57] everyone does it

[00:41:59] but

[00:41:59] yeah it's a particular

[00:42:01] I don't know

[00:42:01] maybe

[00:42:02] naivety

[00:42:02] uh

[00:42:03] not

[00:42:05] to make the ideas succeed

[00:42:06] yeah

[00:42:07] yeah and people who

[00:42:08] look at entrepreneurs and

[00:42:09] you know

[00:42:09] I think it's been glorified

[00:42:11] over the past few decades

[00:42:12] and yeah

[00:42:12] you know

[00:42:12] it was like

[00:42:13] Shark Tank

[00:42:14] and things like that right

[00:42:15] but really I mean

[00:42:16] if people are listening

[00:42:17] they want to start their own gig

[00:42:18] and they're trying

[00:42:18] they have a new idea

[00:42:19] they want to pursue like

[00:42:20] pump the brakes for a second

[00:42:21] because you're

[00:42:21] probably going to make more money

[00:42:22] if you don't do that

[00:42:23] and you're probably going to sleep

[00:42:24] better and have better health

[00:42:25] if you don't do that

[00:42:26] so just contemplate those things

[00:42:28] as as you kind of move forward

[00:42:30] funny study here

[00:42:31] they do

[00:42:32] they did

[00:42:32] entrepreneurs

[00:42:33] top level surgeon

[00:42:35] and plumbers

[00:42:36] this is Australia

[00:42:37] and New Zealand

[00:42:38] so I don't know

[00:42:38] it's completely relevant

[00:42:39] to the rest of the world

[00:42:40] and who was better off

[00:42:42] like in terms of

[00:42:42] if you take the debt low

[00:42:44] the stress

[00:42:44] the mental health

[00:42:45] or the rest of the plummet

[00:42:46] figure out

[00:42:46] by far the best

[00:42:47] in terms of money

[00:42:49] to the mental health

[00:42:50] in terms of all of this type of stuff

[00:42:52] where like

[00:42:52] the entrepreneur either

[00:42:53] you know

[00:42:54] kind of feast or famine

[00:42:55] and then the surgeon

[00:42:56] was pretty thing

[00:42:57] but had a lot of debt

[00:42:58] as we grew

[00:43:00] the ad to end up being paid off

[00:43:01] so yeah

[00:43:02] it's a joke that

[00:43:02] yeah it's better off

[00:43:03] to be a plumber

[00:43:04] in Australia and New Zealand

[00:43:05] than us

[00:43:07] yeah I believe it

[00:43:08] I believe it

[00:43:09] last question

[00:43:09] I just want to

[00:43:10] because you're a technologist

[00:43:11] right I want to kind of zoom back here

[00:43:12] when you look at

[00:43:13] fitness health and wellness landscape

[00:43:16] is there anything

[00:43:17] any technology

[00:43:18] and it doesn't have to be related

[00:43:19] to anything you do in Wektor

[00:43:20] right but anything that gets you

[00:43:22] really excited

[00:43:22] anything that you're very bullish on

[00:43:24] right now

[00:43:24] I keep going back

[00:43:26] and I know it's the fundamental weeks

[00:43:27] but I keep going back to

[00:43:28] just this hyper personalization

[00:43:29] like if it comes from AI

[00:43:31] if it comes from how we're doing

[00:43:32] we just need to support

[00:43:34] for the betterment of our industry

[00:43:35] we need to support our members

[00:43:37] either support them or inspire them

[00:43:39] and we can do that

[00:43:40] you know I said it offline

[00:43:42] to be more human in my eyes

[00:43:44] you need to go digital

[00:43:46] because the only way

[00:43:47] you can scale your overall zip

[00:43:48] than your overall brand

[00:43:50] so anything in that space

[00:43:52] really really excites me

[00:43:53] well I the last question

[00:43:54] I always enjoy asking on this one

[00:43:56] is you know

[00:43:56] what's what are the biggest challenges

[00:43:58] that you're facing right now

[00:44:00] and that's

[00:44:01] yeah I ask that

[00:44:02] in the spirit of like

[00:44:03] how can we help you

[00:44:04] as an industry

[00:44:05] what would you like to hear

[00:44:06] from people about

[00:44:07] so yeah what's what's

[00:44:08] what's on your mind now

[00:44:09] yeah I think

[00:44:11] the biggest challenge for me is

[00:44:13] is the adoption curve

[00:44:14] you know adoption curve of digital

[00:44:15] so you know everyone's engaging

[00:44:17] with digital in some fashion

[00:44:18] shape or form

[00:44:20] but for me it's all about

[00:44:21] how do we actually helping

[00:44:22] digital serve that member

[00:44:24] in the best way possible

[00:44:25] and I still don't think

[00:44:27] for the betterment of our industry

[00:44:28] we're there yet

[00:44:29] I think you know

[00:44:30] set it offline

[00:44:31] it's a bit of a punchy comment

[00:44:32] but you know if we had

[00:44:34] if as a traditional fitness industry

[00:44:37] we had everything on point

[00:44:38] we were servicing members

[00:44:40] digitally and physically

[00:44:41] like that boom of those

[00:44:42] B2C operators

[00:44:43] and how much

[00:44:44] how much they came from nowhere

[00:44:45] with a lot of money

[00:44:46] probably wouldn't

[00:44:47] and so how much more members

[00:44:48] would we have been able to attract

[00:44:50] if they could just quickly

[00:44:51] go back to another brand X

[00:44:53] that they is down the road right

[00:44:55] and I feel like

[00:44:56] we missed a massive opportunity

[00:44:57] as an industry on that one

[00:44:59] but I still believe

[00:45:00] we're offering the better product

[00:45:02] though therefore we just

[00:45:03] it's for me

[00:45:04] it's all about adoption

[00:45:05] you know it's how do we

[00:45:07] you know in every single boardroom

[00:45:08] in every single meeting

[00:45:10] how are we putting that customer first

[00:45:11] to be able to support them 24-7

[00:45:13] and that's not just in

[00:45:14] you know the fitness result

[00:45:16] of weight loss or weight gain

[00:45:17] or getting fitter

[00:45:18] also in mental health

[00:45:19] also holistic health

[00:45:21] also sleeping better

[00:45:22] I think we just need to take

[00:45:23] more responsibility for it

[00:45:24] so it's that would be my

[00:45:26] that's what keeps me up at night

[00:45:28] to work out how to get

[00:45:30] you know we've got

[00:45:30] some amazing case stories

[00:45:32] but we don't have

[00:45:33] the entire industry

[00:45:35] doing that

[00:45:36] and putting the same way yet

[00:45:37] Awesome man

[00:45:39] Paul if people want to get a hold of you

[00:45:41] what's the best way

[00:45:41] for them to do that?

[00:45:43] LinkedIn is by far the easiest

[00:45:47] all my email is just paul at wexa.com

[00:45:49] please feel free to get in touch

[00:45:51] right on

[00:45:51] right on

[00:45:52] well appreciate your time

[00:45:53] you know time zones

[00:45:54] are always tricky

[00:45:56] when it comes to recording like this

[00:45:57] you've been to zealand

[00:45:58] I'm in North America

[00:45:59] but it's been a pleasure

[00:46:00] I'm glad we finally got to do this

[00:46:02] after all these years of

[00:46:03] missing you

[00:46:04] Pleasure talking

[00:46:05] and nice meeting you finally

[00:46:06] Yeah, great

[00:46:07] Well, we'll do it in person next

[00:46:09] Ladies and gentlemen

[00:46:10] Paul Bowman

[00:46:11] Thank you Eric

[00:46:13] Hey wait don't leave yet

[00:46:15] this is your host Eric Malzone

[00:46:17] and I hope you enjoyed

[00:46:18] this episode of Future of Minutes

[00:46:20] if you did

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[00:46:22] three simple things

[00:46:23] it takes under five minutes

[00:46:25] and it goes such a long way

[00:46:26] we really appreciate it

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[00:46:52] Lastly

[00:46:52] if you'd like to learn more

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[00:46:58] you can subscribe to our newsletter there

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[00:47:05] this is Eric Malzone

[00:47:06] and this is the future of fitness

[00:47:08] have a great day