Juliet Starrett & Alex Alimanestianu - Quarterly Reports: The Big Five, HUGE Industry Transactions, & Casey Means as Surgeon General

Hey friends, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness and wellness industry podcast for over five years and running. I'm your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the honor of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. If you like the show, we'd love it if you took three minutes of your day to leave us a nice supporter review wherever you consume your podcast. If you're interested in staying up to date with the future of fitness, go to future of fitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now onto the show. Since launching in 2012, they've consistently had one mission: facilitate the best customer experiences with the most cutting-edge solution for franchises, studios, gyms, and boxes. Spanning over 4,000 clients in 40 countries, T-MUP has a vast global network with its roots right here in North America. Whether it's AI, new features, new partnerships, and new markets, TMUP's sites are set on raising the bar of the industry to enable their customers to perform and operate at the highest level locally, nationally, and overseas. However, the most reliable APIs in the market, you can deliver premium customer experiences and scale your fitness enterprise with the strongest technological infrastructure our industry has to offer. Empower your staff, engage your members, and unlock the next chapter of growth of software design for you. For a limited time, get a very generous 50% off your first month. To redeem the offer, simply contact the teamup sales team and use the promo code the future of fitness. Headgote.com. That is G-O-T-E-A-M-U-P dot com. Hey friends, this is Eric Malzone, and this episode of the Future of Fitness is brought to you by the Podcast Collective. Since our inception in 2023, we have emerged as the fitness, health, and wellness industry's premier podcast placement agency. We're honored to work with many of the industry's most prominent technologists, thought leaders, startup founders, and business executives. Why? Because they recognize that being on podcasts is the most effective way to authentically connect with their specific target audiences and rapidly grow a lucrative professional network. From podcast placements to speaking engagements, go-to-market strategies to investor relations, and media kits to press releases, the podcast collective brings a level of professionalism and deep industry expertise that can only be achieved by spending decades in the trenches. If you are a startup founder, business executive, emerging thought leader, or simply a savvy operator that understands the power of authentic media, learn more at podcastcollective.io and feel free to book a 30-minute strategy session with yours truly. Traditional media is dying on the vine. Podcasts are rising quickly to fill the void. Do not miss the boat. That's podcastcollective.io. All right. We are live. We are back. Juliet, Alex, it's uh it's a pleasure to see you guys.

As always, a total pleasure. Thanks for always hosting this, Eric.

Great to be with you guys. Yep. Yep. It's a uh it is a highlight of my quarter. I really look forward to this. As soon as we get it on the calendar, I get excited and nervous because I know I have homework, I have things I need to study, and uh I never feel prepared enough, but we let it rip either way. And uh it seems to turn out okay. So people like it. So I appreciate you guys doing this. And uh yeah, so there's there's a lot to cover. You know, we're gonna get into today uh a couple transactions, Crunch and EOS. We're gonna get into the quarterly reports on Peloton, Lifetime, Planet, Expo, Garmin. And we'll touch a little bit on SQL brands, Anthony Geisler's new venture, and then we're gonna talk about Casey Means specifically, Surgeon General, and that whole kind of Maha grouping that we have going on right now at the top of the food chain within our health department. So it's it's gonna be a really interesting conversation. Before we get into that, how are things been? Julia, what's what's been going on in your life in the Starret household over the last three months?

We are all good. Our ski season wrapped up. We actually had a decent one, so that was good. I know you guys have still been skiing very recently, so I feel like my ski season ended a month ago, so now I'm in summer mode and been on my mountain bike a lot more, but yeah, we're all good. We're just trying to get a kid through junior year of high school, which is exhausting, and she's still busy uh heavy-duty water polo recruiting. So I think I'm optimistic that maybe by this next call she'll have something on the board that I can share.

Awesome. Love it, Alex. How's life?

Well, I had a an amazing trip to the North Pole basically in last month, and highly recommend going to Swalbard if anyone wants to extend their ski season into the spring and summer. But yeah, so uh that was that was amazing. 24 hours of sunlight, which is first time I've experienced that, and wildlife that I'd never seen before, walrus and reindeer, and uh we didn't see a polar bear, sadly, although I hear they're not particularly friendly, so maybe that's the thing. But yeah, just an amazing trip. You know, it takes a long time to get there, but it is worth the effort. So if you have any desire to get into the mountains near the North Pole, Svalbard is should be on your list. And the skiing is amazing. You gotta work for your turns, but they're they're pretty much they're definitely worth it.

Well, plus you said that it, you know, it's at sea level, so for all of us who live at sea level and don't, you know, don't have the opportunity to train up at altitude, that sounds perfect.

How do you get there, Alex? What's the travel like from Jackson?

Denver, Frankfurt, Oslo, and then this little airport in in on the main island in Salt Ark. So four flights, and yeah, it's almost a 24-hour excursion. So yeah, once you get there, the the it's worth it, especially if the weather's good. And if you can see, if you can, you know, if it's not stormy and and white it out and you can see where you're going and where you're skiing, it's it's pretty amazing.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, I will put that on the list and uh let's see, updates for me. Yeah, wrapped up ski season about a month ago. Did a little extra curricular up in British Columbia, which I was telling you guys about. Good uh kudos to Fernie Mountain for staying open a couple more weeks and uh hit a million vertical this year. So that was uh unexpected little little bonus for my ski season. Not that I track that stuff, but I've obviously I do because I just said it. And what else? Podcast Collective is going really well. We're we continue to uh push forward and get great clients and trying to kind of elevate the whole podcast medium for our industry. So so far, so good. And uh speaking of podcasts, just let everyone know, because we discussed this earlier, we are open to sponsors for this quarterly report. So imagine you insert sponsor name being talked about right now. You you could be part of this. So we'll leave it at that. Contact me directly. Let's start with the transaction. So some big ones going on. Uh Crunch and EOS. Do you want to lead it off with that? I mean, let's start with Crunch. So they had a big transaction, they had a strategic investment, right? What does that mean for a company like Crunch? I mean, they've been crushing it the last few years, especially. So, what does this mean for them getting to the next level?

Yeah, so Leonard Green made an investment, and from what I've heard, it was a controlling investment. So, my assumption is that Leonard Green is in control of that business now. And Leonard Green is uh a private equity firm that has been in the fitness space for for a long time. Uh, they're the main sponsor when Lifetime Fitness went private back about 10 years ago. They were the uh private equity firm that that bought it, took it private, and then took it public again. So, yeah, so they're an experienced investor in the uh in the fitness industry, and it's they're you know an elite, really successful operation. So it's great to have them uh in uh their you know vote of confidence in Crunch. And yeah, the HVLP category is is having a moment. I mean, two major transactions uh with uh Crunch and then EOS. EOS also attracted a veteran investor, a private equity investor in the in the uh fitness world, uh and that was TSG, who previously had invested in Planet Fitness for many years and and may have done and probably done some other things as well. But uh yeah, I mean it's interesting, you know, HVLP is not particularly innovative, I wouldn't say it's it's price-driven, but I feel like EOS and Crunch innovated to the extent that they added more services and you know, group X and more personal training than uh Planet Fitness ever did. So it is an HVLP two model, I guess. So there is some innovation, but but it's a pretty basic product and you know, at a really affordable price, like ten dollars to get into EOs, you know, you can upgrade your membership and get get other services. But so yeah, HVLP is having having a uh you know a uh a big uh big moment is you know, is that going to continue or are they gonna start sort of opening up across the street from each other and eat each other's uh margins and you know, sort of like 24-hour fitness and LA Fitness did back in the day. I don't know. It's it's so hard to predict, right? What how much runway is left for these companies? But you know, congrats to them. And I do want to say the both of those companies have TSI people deeply involved in them. So it's the the Crunch CFO was my CFO at TSI, Dan Gallagher, and then the main investors in EOS were the main investors in TSI, Brockman Rosser, a BRS. So it's kind of interesting. They're they're these are folks who have been you know in and around the industry for 20 plus years. So they're they're committed and experienced and knowledgeable, knowledgeable, and these are really successful transactions for them. Julia, any uh thoughts or takeaways?

I don't really have anything to add, but I do have a question for Alex on this because I think we always feel like Wall Street struggles with the fitness business and investors as well. Like, what do you think this says? Does this say anything about those two challenges? Is that like a positive you know check for our industry, or is it just are these people have they always been involved in this industry and it doesn't really change anything in terms of overall perception?

No, I think it's a huge vote of confidence for the future because they're they're making a billion dollar plus investments in the in the industry and in companies that are that are going to continue to grow and invest and our people and yeah, I'm a little, I guess, disappointed that neither of them went public. Not quite sure why they wouldn't have considered the public markets, or maybe they did and they just got offers from the private equity world that that were that were better. But yeah, that's my only regret. I'd like to I'd like to see more fitness, uh, you know, successful fitness companies on the public markets.

And what would be, Alex, the pros and cons of going public versus going private equity at this point for these companies in a broad stroke.

I mean, I I think if the main investors want or need a liquidity event, so if they, you know, need to make distributions to their investors, if their fund is sort of wrapping up, it is a quicker way to liquidity if you sell to to another private equity group. Go public, uh, you're typically you don't get liquidity for for a while. You're locked up, you can't sell your shares for presumably at least six months, and then you don't know what the markets are gonna do. So there's more uncertainty about your exit. But uh but if you think there's a lot of upside, then uh you know you can go public, sell some of your stock, hold on to some of it, and go along for the ride. But in this case, I think they're both just they may have rolled over a little bit of their investment, but I I I kind of doubt it. I assume they took, you know, all their money, all their tips off the table. And, you know, and they're happy about that, and the other their investors are happy about it. And you know, and then man we'll see what management does if management sticks around or uh some of those guys peel off or gals peel off. But that's a lot of that's a a lot of those are two big transactions you know, in in 2025 that we haven't seen in a while.

Yeah, yeah, it's great. And uh and it just feels and we'll get into it with the other quarterly reports, but just the the whole health club sector overall just seems very healthy. Seems like they're doing really well. So I think that's really exciting. I mean, it seems to be kind of the fundamental heartbeat of the industry, is is that's that's a lot of things feed off that. Okay, so quarterly reports. Should we start with uh I don't know, should we start with Peloton? What do you guys think?

Let's do it.

Let's do it. So uh I just kind of briefly got some some stats here. So the revenue was down uh 13% year over year in Q1 2025 versus 2024, so at 586 million. Uh their net loss decreased, so it improved 167 million to 48 million. Uh subscription revenue was up 5% year over year, to be 445 million, and connected fitness products revenue uh was down 39% uh to 141 million. So just some high-level numbers, but a lot of stuff to talk about in your report. Where would you like to start?

Well, I mean, I'll kick it off with I do feel like they are digging out of a ditch and some things seem to be working. You know, you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, Alex, but it seems like they're bringing in more cash than they're spending now, and that their cost-cutting measures are working and paying off. So I thought that was a positive after a lot of quarters of very negative information. So it seems like they're sort of on the road to becoming a healthier company from my limited perspective. Every time I read their reports, though, I always feel like strategically it feels like they're like like there seem to be changing strategy a lot, especially with partnerships, you know. They were doing like a bike rental program. And then this time they're doing a partnership with pre-core to have instructor-led classes and they have a Hilton partnership, which they have had. They're trying, I think that they're picking up on the fact that people don't just want to be stuck in their home. They want to go out, and so they're trying to figure out how to make their mark in some sort of in-person way. But like my overall feeling about that is every time I read their report, I'm like, oh, okay, they seem to always change strategy and pretty quickly because it, you know, we're looking at this every three months. So it always feels a little bit strategically like whack-a-mole to me with this company. But I overall, I thought it was positive. I mean, I thought I was like, okay, they, you know, they were real in a real deep ditch and they're climbing out of it. That's how I saw it.

Yeah, I mean, it's a bit of a, as you say, it's they're they're in they're in that ditch where they can't get much traction on growth. Like they they haven't figured out how to grow the business at this point in terms of like top line revenue and subscribers. Those on those two metrics, they're they're declining or they're flat. You know, they're kind of stuck or just around three million subscribers, but but it's coming down. Uh they'll be down probably seven percent by the end of the year. But uh that's still a lot of subscribers. And you know, what one thing to think about is do they have a pricing tower? They haven't raised their prices in I think a couple years, and they're at 44 a month for the subscription, you know. For the people who are committed Peloton users, $44 a month is probably a bargain. So, and most of their men, most of their subscribers are engaged. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see you know a price a price increase uh in the near future. They are uh you know they're talking about the treadmill growing a bit and and you know, more men joining. It's predominantly female joiners, but but they're they're marketing to men more and trying to uh you know increase uh growth that way. I think it's it's early and it's it's it's not a material yet, but uh, but that's a focus. And they're throwing off a lot of cash. I mean, they had almost 100 million of free cash flow in the quarter. So that's cash that is not uh going for investment. It's available to potentially pay down debt, to make dividends to the shareholders. And so I think that discipline, that financial discipline is pretty remarkable and really has been, you know, I think it's been five quarters in a row that they've had free cash flow. So they have turned it, turned this thing around financially, but how do you grow it?

Yeah, I mean, you're basically saying they've turned it around by cutting costs, but haven't figured out how to grow.

And uh their CEO, Pierce Ernie, has only been there for what they say, 100 days so far. So, I mean, that's not a lot of time, right? So he's he's working on some things, but yeah, it seems like growth is is that's key. But writing the ship and then how do they grow? And you're right, I see the same thing you always do. Julia is like they're always like there's some new strategic partnership or some new angle every quarter, right? You're like, well, what happened to the last one? Yeah, I'll trace what happened to the last one.

So yeah, like two quarters ago they were like partnered with Michigan, but now that's gone, and they're doing something with UT Austin, and then they're like renting bikes, but I don't know if they're still doing that. And so yeah, it uh it does feel like whack-a-mole to me.

Yeah, it's still very much a bike company, right?

Yeah. I mean, what do you guys think? What do you think about their potential to do anything in person? Because clearly, you know, I think that they're seeing, you know, I saw their goal was to like have lifelong members, right? But I think maybe they're realizing that people don't want to just bike in their home lifelong. Uh so they're trying to meet people where they want to be. And what do you do you guys think they have any hope of being able to open up studios that would have traction?

I don't know. You know, tonal was an interesting experiment, right? They had their tonal training lab last quarter in New York where they uh opened it up. I think it was just for six weeks. So it was uh, you know, it was a studio, but it was all tonal and it had tonal instructors, and it's it seemed to be a success by all their their metrics or what they are looking at. So obviously, strength is different than spin. You know, there's a lot of spin options out there. A lot, you know, a lot of them are in health clubs and things like that already. So I don't know, it's a tough one, but the brand's so strong. People love the brand. It's Peloton is a verb, right? Uh so I don't know. What do you think, Alex?

I don't I don't see the the the roadmap to to growth at this point, but if they keep generating cash flow and have you know a lot of expense discipline, then you know they can they can take a lot of swings and try a lot of things and maybe one of the you know one of the one of the darts is gonna hit the bullseye. Eventually, I gotta believe there's uh they can leverage the brand and leverage the membership and and with three million subscribers and that kind of cash flow. At some point, I think they're gonna figure out a growth factor. But I don't I have no idea what it is.

Yeah, yeah, we have to do that.

Yeah, me and no idea. They're definitely trying things. We know they're trying things.

Yeah, yeah, that's not a lack of effort. Well, let's move on to uh plan of fitness. So uh seems like pretty steady growth, you know, amongst some economic volatility, as we could say, over the last quarter. We haven't even touched on that yet, but that's gonna come up in numerous ways. But yeah, revenue increased by 11.5. Membership grew to approximately 20.6 million. So they added 900.

Yeah, I laughed. I laughed to myself out loud when I read that. I don't know if you guys felt I mean that was the thing that stuck out to me too. It was like 900,000 more members.

Yeah, that's a lot of people. Um same store sales, uh, system wide same club sales increased by 6.1%. So, you know, actually, I I had to look this up because I think this if a lot of people listening may not understand what that means, and maybe you can explain that, Alex, of a system wide same club sales, like or same store sales, like they they seem to go synonymous, but Yeah, maybe for referencing this conversation, why is that an important metric?

Yeah. So when you have a brick and mortar facilities, when you open them up in the first year, the growth is significant, obviously. You're starting from zero. So you're gonna, you know, say you grow from zero to a million dollars. That is uh not same store growth. That is growth of a new unit. So when you look at same-store growth, you want to take out the new stores and just look at the more mature ones and see what the mature business is able to do growth wise. So, you know, it's a it's it's pretty easy to open a store. I shouldn't say easy, but it's it's it's a different metric to look at a a new store versus a mature store. And the real health of the business involves both, but most of your stores are mature. So if they have 2,500 units and they're adding you know, 200 a year, 2300 say are mature. How are those doing not impacted by the new stores? And you know, if they're growing at more than inflation, that means that they have some pricing power, they're adding some members, and that's healthy. You know, same store sales are declining. Uh, that's a sign that a business, it could be a retail business, a restaurant, a gym, whatever, it's all brick and mortar. That metric is is critical. So 6.1% is is is is good. I mean, lifetime is is more is about double that. Expo is about four percent. So they're all they're all sort of beating uh beating inflation. But and then you look at how are they accomplishing the 6.1%? Are they raising prices? Are they adding members? Are they doing both? Doing both is probably the best, but having pricing power is is you know a positive as well. So I think in their case, they they raised the new member price from ten to fifteen dollars for the basic. And uh, so I think most of the increase was was pricing. And then they also they've sold more black cards, so the more expensive membership. So I think pricing is is driving most of the the growth, but I think yeah, so so that's a that's a healthy number.

Awesome. Juliet, uh any other takeaways on planet?

I mean, I this business always blows my mind. I mean, I read that they opened 119 new clubs just in this quarter.

So that's a total of 2,741.

Yes, that blew my mind. And I thought it was interesting that they, you know, we are in I think everybody is unsure, or at least I am unsure about sort of what our economy, you know, the 2025 economy is gonna look like, but they seemed, you know, they still expect to open something like 170 new clubs and have revenue growth. And so they seem to be showing confidence that the business is going to continue to grow, even though you know, we do seem to be in a sort of uncertain economic climate. So I just thought that that really showed what a like juggernaut this this business is, because you know, I think a lot of other people don't feel as excited about it or feel more shaky about what to expect. I'm always I'm always blown away by this planet fitness thing.

Yeah, and there's the underlying current too. Go ahead.

Well, during uh they grew during the great financial crisis, so they have confidence that not that we're anywhere near that level of you know economic uh dislocation, but but I think it's it's interesting. Most of the the companies had to address that question. Like what what what happens if we head into a recession here or the consumers stop spending, and they're all hearkening back to the you know, the 2008-2009 era when fitness clubs and you know gyms did pretty pretty well.

Yeah, I mean, this is an N of one, but I owned a CrossFit gym during that time, and we actually continued growing and did great and really took. I mean, you know, again, that's just our little experience. But I imagine a lot of other CrossFit gyms had this had a similar experience, and we realize that you know, even in shaky economic times, this is not, you know, their gym membership is not what people are gonna drop, they're gonna drop other expenses. So, you know, maybe that's what's pushing pushing the level of confidence.

Yeah, and to your point to it, it's it's a resilient category. I've talked about that numerous times on this podcast, is like uh and saying I started my gym in 08, which people are like, What do you what are you doing? But it was it is resilient. I mean, the other thing, because I remember researching it and it was like I did like 10 minutes of research just to justify my own beliefs and then started the gym. You know, people work out and they drink. That's two things that they continue to do during down times. And uh I felt so yeah, I felt pretty good, but it's proven over time. We're a pretty resilient category.

Yeah, we used to always say, well, you know, when the the unemployment rate goes up, people have more time on their hands and they got stress, and what better to do than go to the gym?

Yeah, yeah.

Another thing on Planet that I thought was interesting was the click to cancel rules are are oh yeah, are in in effect now. And historically the industry's been pretty uh kind of, I would say, backwards in terms of how we allow members to cancel their memberships and you know, certified mail and in person, which which is so out of keeping with the times. But it was interesting that they said that they it's the right thing to do, and we're doing it, and it's gonna impact us a little bit for a month or two, but then things would go back to normal. And and it might help on sales when you can say, Yeah, I mean, it's you know, if if if you need to cancel, it's just one click and and you know, if you move, if whatever, and it might help sales a little bit. So I'm I'm I'm I'm encouraged by that.

Which which is a stark contrast to the old 24-hour fitness days. So it's like if you want to if you want to cancel, it was it was a thing.

It was yeah, you had to almost take an in-person meeting with someone, right?

Yeah, yeah, like a lawyer up.

Yeah.

Right. But then but then the piece of paper that you sign mysteriously disappears, and nobody can find it, and you're being billed six months later. Like, yeah, no, that's just not the right way to treat your customers.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Uh well, we just mentioned lifetimes, let's do that one. The gold standard of the industry. I mean, gosh. Like uh, so revenue rose by 18.3% to 706 million. Uh net income surged by 205.6 percent. Is that right? Like, can that be true?

Probably off a very yeah, off a low base.

Okay. And adjusted EBITDA increase 31.2%. So things look good. They I mean, we talked about HV, you know, the high volume, low price, and now we're talking about a very, you know, higher priced tier seems to be doing really well as as well. So yeah, what what's your what's your thoughts on this?

I mean, I'll I'll just kick in. I read actually in an article that it was described as Lifetimes Now making real profits now, not just almost profits, which I thought was an interesting way of putting it. I mean, they at what tripled last year's results and they're like pocketing money right now and like planet, they also seem confident in their projections and their 20, you know, they I think they raised their 2025 goals. So, you know, they just continue to slay all day, from what I can tell. And it seems like they are they have a lower total debt number now, too. So I don't know if that's just from their I actually don't know the why. I'm sure Alex does. I don't know if that's from cost cutting or raising prices or you know, whatever, whatever it is they're doing at their debt lower, their debt load is safer now. So I thought that was really interesting.

Yeah, their retention is the best it's ever been. Their average spend is are increasing significantly. Most of the growth in the same store sales number is from increased spending. So higher membership price and more in-club spending, personal training, small group, a food and beverage. And there's not that much growth in the membership number. There's only like 3% growth in that, but uh, but about 12 or 13%, you know, same store growth. So most of it is from pricing power that they're that they're using. And then they talk a lot about wait lists in their clubs now, which is definitely a new thing in the gym, in the gym business. You know, that's very much kind of a golf club, private, you know, country club concept, not a for-profit gym concept. And so they're doing things differently. And, you know, I think the the one sort of blemish on the on the on the on the call was that new membership sales were a little slow. And they weren't very precise about, you know, how much slowdown there was or what whether they expected it to impact results. They did raise their guidance, so it's got to be just a really, you know, a blip on the on the uh financial results. But I think that's spooped the market a little bit and the stock has been been down a little a little. If any gym company is gonna be impacted by a consumer slowdown, I guess lifetime would be at the top of the list and Equinox and the pricey ones where where you know certainly a lot of people, you know, don't have a problem paying 200 and some a month who were members there. But there are others who you know may not join or who may cut back a bit. Uh but yeah, overall they they uh they're firing, I would say, on pretty much all cylinders. I don't know how you guys think about their supplement business. Because they they keep talking about how that's gonna be the you know the leading supplement uh company in the world uh over time. I I don't it maybe, but I don't know.

I mean the only thing I have to add is I think the supplement business is hard, and I continue to be shocked that more supplement companies continue to hit the market. Like how we are not saturated at this point to the I mean, I I there are so many supplement. I mean, it seems like everybody has a supplement company. You know, obviously they have a captive audience, and maybe that will help them because people are there and already spending and used to spending, and it might just be easier to get their protein powder there. But I mean, the amount of options that people have out there, I don't know. I don't know. I think I think that would be like seems to me like a line of business is just sort of a nice to have to, you know, make something easier for your customer to not have to order online or go to the store. But whether they make actual money from that, I guess I'd be skeptical.

I think I think there's a lot of margins in supplements. I think you uh, you know, and we'll see what happens with the FDA because it's it's fairly unregulated. And you know, there's a lot of things you can do in the supplement business. And uh I've I've had some people I know very well make a lot of money on relatively small supplement brands. Are they still around? No, but they're in and out.

Yeah.

And uh, you know, they they did okay. And the other, yeah, I noticed that too about the LTH nutritional products, they're gonna put a lot of you know expansion plans behind that. The other thing was it's interesting because this is starting to pop up a lot too, is the Lacey, so their AI companion in the app. I think in two years this is gonna be kind of just the standard, right? It's like you have an AI companion, and they're feeding their own data in, right? So it's not data they're getting off the internet. Uh, it's data that's coming in through their portal, it's controlled data, it's clean data, I presume. So they're they're kind of controlling that as far as like how to get around the club, what kind of programs to do, what kind of workouts should I do, things like that. So that that's that's really interesting, which puts them, you know, now in competition with like one of our former guests, eGim, uh, and their genius AI, what they're gonna be doing across clubs. And so I think everyone's on this AI assistant guided thing that we're on now, whatever what kind of kind of technological journey we're on now as a human race. I have no idea what's going on, but uh that was an interesting thing, too.

So here's what I'll say about this, Eric. In 2005 for me and 2008 for you, we should have started supplement companies. I agree, and not CrossFit gyms.

See all this gray?

That's the takeaway here, Eric.

Well, the other company that talked about AI a lot was Peloton. I shouldn't say a lot, but they they definitely talked about it for a bit. And they're using it for personalizing workouts, they're using it to help customer service agents. I'm sure there'll be the other uses. You know, and you wonder, does that is that a you know, competitive advantage for the bigger operators? They just Peloton can spend $60 million a quarter on RD. What other fitness connected fitness company can come anywhere near that? Not that they spend the money in the right way, but if they spend the money in the right way, you know, is that is that a situation where the big, you know, the big companies just dominate on AI and then marginalize the small guys, you know?

It's this is a dangerous topic to get me started on, Alex, but I think the uh the like I I just for example, I I I think people are gonna get used to one or two AIs, like specific, like you know, a chat GPT or a Claude or a Grok or whatever you're into. I mean, I personally, so I have a contier's medicine. I had some blood work 12 months ago, then another repeat blood work panel, and I had some old genetic testing that I did with another one. I fed that all into deep research on Chat GPT, right? And I asked it a bunch of questions. It all came back with like PubMed articles and annotations on all the suggestions it had for my supplementation, all these things. Now, do I trust it all? No. No. But when I go to my concierge doctor, right, I am armed with some really good questions, right? Like, hey, what do we do about this? This is alarming. This looks great, right? And I think that type of thing, people are just gonna start. I know I'm a nerd, use this stuff all the time, but I think a lot of people are gonna pick one or two things that they're gonna use all the time. That's gonna be their go-to assistant. I think that's the kind of world we're going to, but I have no idea. We're on this rocket ship of AI right now. No one knows what life's gonna look like 10 years from now. So it is interesting, but I just wonder if it's a waste of time. Like to have your own developed AI specific to your brand, is that worth it? Or do you kind of tag, you know, tag yourself along one of the major AI companies that are working at a much faster pace?

I don't know.

I think when you're when you're lifetime repeloton and you have all this data relating to your members or your subs, right? It's it's very targeted. And and whereas Chat GPT or GROK or whatever, it is gonna be more generic, I would think, more general. Um they're not gonna have that usage data, that engagement data, that membership data that that uh lifetime and telephone have. So it's less relevant, maybe.

I think we need to have an entire quarterly report on this topic because it's that's all I know.

I love to. Yeah. It's uh it's it's just I don't think we can understate or overstate how transformative it's gonna be in our lives. Um you know, I was joking with someone else, like, you know, 100 years ago, the Wright brothers know that you know they'd be sending Katy Perry to space, right? With the technology they developed, and then also having bombs dropped, you know, over other countries. Like that it can go, it's gonna go all across the board. I just don't think we know what's gonna happen. So buckle up, that's all I can say. Exponential. I don't know. I mean it read well, but then I started looking at some of the numbers. I was like, well, wait. So revenue decreased by four percent, right? Net loss reported of 2.7 million, system-wide sales increased 18% to 466 million. So I I I got, I guess for my naked eye, I got mixed signals here. But what are we looking at?

Yeah, I mean, I'll I'll just echo that. I mean, I I read they had quite a you know, they have 42.6 million cash on hand, but they have $379 million in debt. You know, again, that seems not great to me. I also felt sort of sad. I mean, I seeing that the average studio pulls in six and K. I mean, I, you know, maybe that's a tidy little business for a franchisee, but knowing a little bit about the economics of running a studio, I thought, you know, is the are these owners or these franchisees making like $20,000 a year? Somehow that number really stuck out to me as not very much for a lot of these businesses that at least on the outside look really polished and kind of fancy, and but I don't know, 7K on average didn't seem great to me. And they're CEO, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and they're CEO. So I thought, I mean, you know, maybe the impact of that is not yet being felt, but yeah, I'd love to hear Alex's thoughts on the CEO and all of that.

Yeah, the CEO retirement is is really that's really a a mess because uh he's been there less than a year. He had all these these initiatives going. Just you know, he just hired a COO, he just hired a chief marketing person, a chief HR person, the the a chief IT. So he's hired all these these C-suite people uh who are hand selected by a guy who's leaving, right? So the next CEO comes in and is like, yeah, I kind of need my own team. This is you know, these guys seem okay, but I don't I never worked with this guy. I don't, you know, whereas King had worked with most of these people at Adidas or or Taco Bell or whatever. And so uh it really sets them back. And and and the you know, the good news is Club Pilates is doing great, yoga six is doing pretty well. Uh it seems like yoga six is is on the upswing, which is which is great. And I think the bar concept, pure bar is is doing pretty well. So they have some concepts, some franchises that brands that are are growing nicely. And so the financial picture is okay. I mean, they're down in, as you said, on revenue, they're down, but it's marginal. But it's it's it's kind of a mess. They have class action lawsuits by franchisees, they have all sorts of club close, you know, underperforming franchisee closures that are happening. So I would say it's a real mixed, it's a mixed bag. And overall, with no CEO uh or having to replace the CEO again in an environment where, or in an industry where it's hard to get, you know, A plus people, you know, that they're in they're in kind of troubled waters. That being said, maybe they'll find a unicorn CEO who's just amazing. You never know. And and that could change everything.

Are you uh are you coming out of retirement, Alex? Yeah, Alex. No, I think is this the announcement?

I don't have any franchise experience in and but you know it's a good opportunity for somebody, that's for sure. It's it's uh they got a lot of you know, a lot of things that are going in the right direction. And so, but I feel bad for yeah, I feel bad for them. Less than a year, they've had two CEOs.

That's hard, especially for a public company. Speaking of CEOs, is their ex-CEO and founder has popped his head up. Anthony Geisler has now announced that he's got SQL brands. He's already acquiring franchise concepts. I think he has four right now. Can't remember exactly on the top of my head, but I think one is a red light concept. There's a stretching mobility, I presume, similar to stretch lab. Uh, there's a couple other ones that are, I think maybe applies that. Don't quote me on that, but I know the first two for sure. So today's episode of The Future of Fitness is proudly brought to you by EGM, a vertically integrated market leader in the fitness and health industry with an incredible vision, transforming healthcare from repair to prevention. I've been a huge fan of E-Gym's team and technology for years now, and I can tell you that their commitment to innovation is unparalleled within our industry. Here's what makes EGM so special. They partner with companies to improve employee health by providing access to fitness and health facilities. Then they equip those facilities with cutting-edge smart gym equipment and digital solutions. The benefits are clear. Companies see reduced healthcare costs and increased productivity, while fitness facilities benefit from a growing engaged membership base. What really excites me is eGM's smart fitness ecosystem. By combining their strength equipment with AI powered software and their corporate wellness platform wellpass, they are leading the shift to proactive preventative health. This isn't just AI for show, this is the real deal. If you're interested in learning more about eGym and how they're transforming healthcare through exercise, visit eGym.com. That is egym.com. Yeah, he's uh he's back at it and I presume by the name of SQL Brands that he's stating this is part two to what he's up to. And uh, you know, that won't be boring. So we'll see what happens.

Yeah, how does he not have a non-compete? I have no idea.

Yeah, because that seems like the only thing I can add is I was like, wait, this seems like the same company with the same sub brands.

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he's doing Pilates. Red light I don't think it might be a red light Pilates recovery concept or yeah.

Uh it's something I learned this this week that red light Pilates is like a it's a thing. Like it's it's popular a lot of urban areas. So now they're like mixing boutique modalities together to create new experiences, which I always think. I I love the boutique sector is so interesting to me because I feel like it's the testing grounds for new concepts. And then when those kind of get try intrude over time, then they get incorporated into the health clubs, and that's how you know they're they're sticking, right? So I think it's great. I love when people are doing cool stuff like that. Well, let's get on to the last one. Garmin.

Garmin, I forgot. Garmin, gosh, like they're just play all day.

Yeah, they're uh they're awesome. So achieved record uh 1.54 billion, so up 11% year over year. Their fitness segment increased 12% to 385 million, outdoor segment increased by 20% to 438 million. They continue to innovate, uh, meeting the fitness market where they're at, and uh, and you know, taking their best in class technologies and and improving and making you know more use cases for it. So, you know, I think everyone knows Juliet and our huge Garmin fans, so I'm always cheering for these guys.

But uh anyway, maybe they could be a sponsor of this podcast.

Yeah, guys, come on, give me a call.

We are fans, we are fans and users.

Yeah, good idea, Julia. Nice plug. Julia, any big takeaways on this report for you?

Well, I read that they keep more than half of every sales dollar after direct cost, so their gross margin 57.6%, which seems awesome to me. Yeah, I don't know how many businesses in any sector have that kind of gross profit margin. So uh yeah, I mean they they just seem to have a lot of cash, they have a giant cash pile, uh, they make a lot of money, they seem to control their expenses really well, their forecast for 2025. I think they increased it. So I I think maybe they even paid some dividends. Yeah, so man, I am a fan of this company and talk about slay all day. That's what I would say. They are slaying.

Slay all day. I like it. I like it. Alex, what do you think?

You know, I'm speechless. It's it's a it's uh yeah, cash cow and uh Juliet said they have a lot of cash, they have two billion cash sitting on the balance sheet. Nice. They they sold 18 million units last year. Yeah, I mean, compared to Apple, I think Apple Apple Watch sold 40 million. But you know, Garmin just, I don't know how they how they keep doing it, but they're the number of SKUs they have is just mind-boggling. It is.

Yeah, I know that because when my own watch gets disconnected and I have to go back and reconnect it, you know, the amount of SKUs I have to go through to find mine is mind-boggling. You know, another thing I think is so interesting is they keep just selling and selling and selling. And in a way, at least looking in from the outside, until we started looking at these financial reports, I would think it was a more niche market of people who want these higher tech devices that stay charged for longer. But I mean, that doesn't seem to be the case. There have to be just like regular people that are excited about these watches, right? And other tools they have.

I mean, I think I think Apple and Google probably get a lot of that market. I think Garmin's number three. And I do think they they skew more towards the active lifestyle person and who's willing to do a little bit of research and pay a little bit more and spend a little more time figuring out how it works. And but they seem to know their market so well. It's it's just yeah, it's it's a crazy profitable business.

Yeah. Kudos Garmin. Uh well, I think that's it for the the financial or the quarterly reports you guys have. Well done. I think we covered a lot. Let's uh let's get on to kind of the uh I'll just say it, the subjective point of our conversation. Casey means is the Surgeon General.

I think she's still just an appointee. I think she's still an appointee. Yeah, thank you. Okay, thank you.

Yeah, so you know, as this kind of new, I don't know what do you want to call it, like this this Maha grouping of people continues to evolve, and uh, you know, more people jumping on, and it's it's just it's unusual, right? This is a very unusual cast of characters that we would have leading nation's health directives. So I guess where do we want to start? I mean, is she qualified? Is she talking about the right things? Is it, you know, is a lot of people up in arms be like she's so non-traditional, right? To to what we would have as surgeon general in the past. I don't know. You know, where where are we at? Is this the right direction? I'll start with I I just I like the fact that we're talking about metabolic health. I think that's something that's that's really good to have in the conversation. I think out of all of these typical pointy or these pointies that we have going on right now, it's like, I like the conversations that are being had now compared to a year ago, right? About general health and, you know, kind of our how people can improve their own health on their own and and foods and things like that, that we all know as industry folk that this is fundamental, right? To the fight against all the issues we have in this country with our health. Now, how it's that's gonna happen, well, I I don't know. I don't know. Are these the right people? I have no idea. So who wants to start on this one?

Geez, I mean, I'll take a swing.

Yeah.

I think the counterpoint to what you're saying about the conversation, which I made a little bit last time, that actually these are not new conversations, but they're being done in an environment on Instagram and social media that is much more performative and much more out there. And in fact, there have been a ton of people doing deep work and research on this, especially in the scientific community, but those people are often working in labs and not public. So I think that would be my counterpoint to that. That that I think you could talk to a lot of people who are working in a lot of organizations and are who would say these aren't new conversations and this isn't new research and this isn't that new. So that would just be a counterpoint to that. I mean, I think my view on Casey is actually have a lot of admiration for her leaving a profession that wasn't serving her. I mean, I did the same thing when I left my practice of law. I admire that. I really admire her, you know, social media presence. She wrote a book that has, you know, as a fellow author that has just crushed, she wrote a good book. She has done a masterful job marketing that book. You know, I actually am a client of her brother's company, TruMed. Um, you know, we use TruMed at the Ready State uh to help people. You know, so I have a lot of admiration for both of them, you know, and she's done a great job with levels, her company. I mean, she's an entrepreneur, like she has so many bona fides, many of which I have extreme admiration for. And the traditional side of me, though, says that our surgeon general should be a licensed doctor who's practiced medicine. That's the more traditional Juliet speaking. And then I do worry that, you know, there's a lot of performative speak, but how they're going to execute on some of these under an administration that is cutting, massively cutting scientific research, cutting environmental regulations, you know, cutting programs like the program where schools got access to fresh food. I mean, that's just three of probably 20 other examples that the larger, you know, the larger administration, in my view, is, you know, end cuts to Medicaid and SNAP are also, I think, not great for the health of our community. So I think they're going to be working under an administration that may not have their share their priorities. And then, like I said last time, I think the vaccine thing is a problem. I think that's difficult for me. Uh, you know, those are kind of my general views on it. I'm sure someone's gonna get real mad at me on Facebook for that, but that's kind of my point of view.

I like the uh the usage of performative too. And I think that's something it's like, you know, these are all very people are out there, they're not in the labs doing the research, right? They're out on podcasts, they're on Huberman, they're on Rogan, they're on all these big things, and they're out there, you know, telling really good stories. And people like that, you know. I think people like that whether whatever comes out, and no one's fact checking fact-checking a lot of the stuff that comes out. So performative is a really interesting word to use within this this conversation for sure. Alex, you suggested this topic, so I'm presuming you have some some thoughts here.

Yeah, no, I knew you guys would be better versed than me, but I yeah, we're in the preventative health business, right? That is what the fitness fitness world does. So it's it's kind of for a lot of people, this is in our industry, this is sort of a dream come true to have somebody, one of ours, you know, as the the the leading voice in the US medical system. It's I think for a lot of people in the industry, this is just the godsend. And you know, the Surgeon General, I it's sort of an antiquated concept, I think, in a lot of ways. I don't think they have that person has a lot of authority to do anything. It's a really small office, you know, a couple million dollars of budget. And so it's a platform uh for uh whoever gets a job uh to promote a different way of thinking about addressing, you know, critical public health issues in our country. So, you know, I uh I have some reservations about uh some things I've heard from from her. And I think there's a there's a reductive sort of reductionist sort of simplification and sort of an idea, ideological approach that I think a lot of people have around wellness and health and fitness. And I hear that a little bit from the leaders of the Maha movement, and that that always sort of turns me off because I think the the picture is really complicated. You know, we don't really know what causes, for example, obesity. The people who study it the most are like, yeah, we, you know, the data is just not really conclusive in terms of causality. There's a lot of correlative, you know, correlational stuff, and and there's a lot of common sense that you can apply to it, and what changed, you know, in this from the 70s to the to where we are today to raise the average, you know, weight of a of a US male from 170 to 200 pounds, and you know, but we don't, at the end of the day, I don't think we really know what causes it. And uh for just just looking at obesity, for example, whereas I think I think the Maha group would probably say, we know enough. We don't need to, you know, we don't need to study the hell out of it. There's common sense that you can apply. You know, I think the public health approach to obesity with sort of nudging people in the lifestyle, in the right to the right lifestyles, uh has not worked. So, you know, something like a GLP1, pharmaceutical intervention, bariatric surgery, those are those to me are helpful in solving a problem. They're not the be-all and end all. Um and ultimately you want to avoid the problem to begin with. But, you know, I have a sense that the Maha group is probably like, yeah, we don't really want to make GLP ones that available. You know, we want to focus on nudging people in the right direction. And I don't think nudges have really worked.

So I could just add something too to this, just that was sparked. One thing I think that I noticed too is that there is a big difference between individual health optimization and public health. And many of us, I would count myself as one of those people, is I'm in an individual health optimization business. And most of us in the fitness business are, and that's where our expertise lies. We are not public health people and we don't have education in it, we're not experts in it. You know, I don't necessarily think Casey Means has an expertise in public health. And at the same time, I understand that, you know, what people see on the outside is like ultimately sort of a failure of public health, right? Like there's been a lot of smart people working on this and haven't been able to solve this problem. And so if we can bring a new set of eyes, maybe people who have a totally different perspective to the mix, maybe that actually will be what makes a sea change. But I do think that that's an important distinction. You know, it's like we aren't, you know, just because you are good at individuals, you can sell individual health optimization products does not mean that you are a public health expert. And when I think about public health, I don't mean to leave all the adults behind and say it's too late. But for me, where my mind goes is to kids. That to me is our best hope of solving these problems is not having, you know, making sure kids today don't become the obese people that we're having to deal with. Because I think we've all learned that backing people out of obesity, you know, minus GLP ones. So far, a lot of really smart people have tried and failed at that, including a lot of us in this fitness business. So to me, the best hope is how do we, you know, spend money on kids' programs and kids' education? Um, so that's where I think sometimes I disagree with the Maha movement. I mean, to me, I'm like, hey, why don't we make a mandatory cooking class in every single high school in America? Well, that costs money that people don't want to spend. Why don't we bring back real physical education in every school in the country? I mean, that's again money people don't want to spend. But there are some things you could do for kids that are real public health solutions that are possible because we have these institutions that are schools where things could be implemented that could really make a huge public health difference. I mean, if kids, if all kids had five days a week of PE and learned how to cook and understood what food was, you know, if if elementary schools implemented the daily mile where every kid has to walk them out. I mean, there's literally 20 things that could be implemented in schools that the federal government does do not totally control, but federal and state governments, that could be a gigantic windfall. So sometimes when I hear talking about like red dye number five, I'm like, what are we talking about here? Like, I don't buy my kids fruit loops. So that's not a thing. But my kids did go to schools where they had no or very little PE and definitely didn't have any, you know, health or fitness education that was meaningful. So I think, you know, to me, that that's where that's where we can make a some huge difference.

It's I think in this industry too, we we can get a little out of touch with the general masses, right? Because people who walk in our gyms can afford it, number one, and are obviously interested in some form of self-improvement. So we're meeting people certainly at, but I I know you and Kelly have talked about this, Julia, as like it's it's a lot of it is socioeconomic. Like we have socioeconomic issues deeply in the core of our health problems here in the country as well. And how do those get addressed from a public health standpoint? Like as a former gym owner and someone who interviews a bunch of people, I don't know how to do that, right?

No, me either. Yeah, me either. I have ideas, but I have ideas, right?

And then, you know, anecdotally, I could talk about the same thing you can is like uh we used to do as our nutritional lifestyle challenges evolved in the gym year after year. We found that the number one thing that was the most valued to people and that we saw make the biggest change, we had a cooking class. And I was like, people like we would just literally, I don't think this is even illegal, bring like gas burners into the gym, and like, you know, chef would come and be like, this is how you dice a green pepper, right? And this is how you make pasta. And I was like, holy cow, like I took all this for granted. And I think there's base level education that never happened for a lot of people when you you top on the socio neck. It's really hard to care about your nutrition and health when you work two jobs, you're worried about your next bill cycle and your rent and all these things. It just doesn't add up. It's like, we'll worry about that next month, right? So I think that's something that our industry can maybe, and I'm just talking at myself right now as like maybe be a little more aware of like how how we come across because these people in the Maha movement are kind of fitness and health people, right?

They're influencers, they're individual health optimizers. I mean, all of them. That's what they're good at, you know. And I always really bristle at, you know, I mean, I bristle anytime I hear people offering overly simplified suggestions to what are extremely complicated problems. And obesity is one of those, right? I mean, I think we could all agree like a lot of really smart people have tried to tackle this. And, you know, the only, I mean, it's just been in the last what 18 months or two years, we've had a slight downward trend in obesity, and that's 100% GLP ones. So, you know, complicated problems often can't be solved with like, you know, simple Instagram posts. Maybe never, maybe never.

Or a little bit of salt in your water. I don't think that's gonna solve all the problems. Although it tastes good in the morning, right? It does uh does so.

Do you has anybody read her book? Have either or have you read her book?

Yeah, I read it.

What do you recommend it?

Yeah, I mean, I you know, I think it's well done, and I think she uh does a really good job, you know, sort of talking about her personal experience and personal story. Like Eric said, you know, she's really kind of the first person to really, or maybe partly because of marketing and success of her book, really bring this idea of metabolic health to the forefront. You know, there's some kind of like sort of woo-woo stuff in there that I don't totally relate to. And I think even she has said that she knows that's not for everybody. But yeah, I mean, I think it's well done and I think it's worth a read.

Awesome. I will. Well, we'll see. I guess we'll see what happens. I mean, she still has to get appointed, right? So yeah. It'd be interesting. I mean, it's just it, I guess when I when I take a step back, I like overall that something new is happening. I don't know how it's gonna pan out. You know, three years from now, it could be like, oh shit. Like I really wish we just stuck to the old way, like we were better off. But you know, it seems like something new is brewing, a new approach, some new thoughts, some new opinions, you know, fresh perspectives. Now, you know, we're all humans, so uh there's a lot of points of failure involved in in that transition, but we'll we'll see what happens. As we wrap it up, uh any final thoughts, state of the industry, directions, politics. No, no, actually, no politics. Um yeah, any any final thoughts?

Well, just talk to the companies that we study. I felt I think my biggest takeaway uh in looking at the companies as a group was I I felt excited that by and large they felt excited and confident about the financial future and sort of the growth of the businesses because you know, there's so much crazy stuff happening in the economy, a lot of which is sort of outside my own expertise to really understand or understand what the impact is. But if I look at these companies in our little industry who have, you know, and maybe it's because we're a resilient industry in in amid financial chaos, but I thought that that was really promising and it made me feel optimistic.

Alex, I you know, that's a good that's a great observation. The uh I think the new leadership at Teloton, at Planet, the old leadership at Lifetime, I think it's really strong. And then the success, you know, at at EOS and and Crunch. Um, you know, remember people left brick and mortar for dead in during COVID. Those companies were shut down, their revenue was you know, a fraction of what it had been. People were they had left them for dead. The future was digital, and and here we are, you know, four four years later. And those, you know, the the brick and mortar is thriving. So you never know what's gonna happen, but but it's it's pretty darn impressive.

Yeah, yeah, it is. And I forgot to mention this, but I I do believe that uh the Fit Act got snuck into the big beautiful bill. So we'll we'll see what happens with that. We've been talking about that for 15 plus years. So who knows? You know, that could be interesting. But I you know, overall, as I talked all, you know, all these all these trends and things that are happening, I think what you just touched on, Alex, is like at the core. The core part of the industry, when people think about the fitness industry, they think about health clubs. Right. And they're very healthy. And I think that's a really good sign for industry. Cause you're right. Four years ago, I remember getting emails from people on my email list being like, the gyms are dead. I've been operator for 10 years. People, I'm telling you right now, people do not want to work out. They're dead. And I was like, whoa, man. That's a horrible way to like, why do you even have your gym anymore? But obviously that's been proven wrong. And you know, I think the connected and the web 3.0 and all these things that we've talked about over the past five years. Uh, we don't really talk about them too much. I mean, we haven't even talked about longevity a whole lot recently. I don't know if you guys have noticed that, like as a category, that was real hot six months ago. So, you know, you you follow the trends of the industry, and uh I think we're all kind of on top of them, what's going on and what people are talking about. So I like it. It just it feels good to know that the health clubs are doing well and like the base of the industry is is really solid right now, and there's a lot of room for optimism. And I think that creates a lot of opportunity for creativity and in new venues and getting more people in. And yeah, so I think it's it's a lot of fun right now. I'm having a lot of fun in the industry, and I haven't said that in a little while.

Yeah, now if you uh last thing, there's a uh brick and mortar concept that Peter Atia has started called Biograph. I don't know if you you've seen that at all. I haven't. But there's there's a clinic in New York City and a clinic in San Francisco, and they're open, they're open to the public. I want to say 5,000 or 7,500 for a year. And it's basically a lot of a lot of tests, a lot of diagnostic tests, and then analysis. And so the longevity, you know, it it it may it may be ebbing a little bit, but but there are concepts out there that are I think are gonna show us whether the demand is there and to what degree and for what. And I'm sure Miora will be will hear about that. And so I'm yeah, I'm not I'm not uh giving up on the longevity movement yet.

Well, you made a really good point. I think it was one or two episodes ago on this, Alex. It's like there that everything's getting figured out. The pricing, the menu of offerings, the curation, like everyone's kind of figuring out how to put all this together. There's definitely demand, but it's like what's it gonna look like in the final product? And I think that's what everyone's trying to kind of figure out. And I don't think it's gone away by far. I think longevity is a big deal, but it's gonna probably kind of kind of come back in 2.0 to the soon.

I think product market fit. Yeah. What fits the market? Where's the demand?

Yeah. Well, to all the people listening, thank you, by the way, for listening all the way through. If you have any topics that you'd like us to cover, you know, towards the end of this, we you know, shoot me a message. We'll we'd love to consider it, we'd love to hear from you guys. And uh, you guys, uh Julia and Alex, thank you so much. I always learn so much from these guys, from these conversations, and it's it's a lot of fun. So thanks again for doing it. Yeah, thanks, guys.

Thank you so much. Always so fun.

Yeah, that is a wrap. Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.