Juliet Starrett & Alex Alimanestianu - Quarterly Reports: Peloton, Life Time, Planet Fitness, Garmin & The Business of Longevity

Hey friends, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness and wellness industry podcast for over five years and running. I'm your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the honor of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. If you like the show, we'd love it if you took three minutes of your day to leave us a nice supporter review wherever you consume your podcast. If you're interested in staying up to date with the future of fitness, go to future of fitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now onto the show. Here's what makes eGim so special. They partner with companies to improve employee health by providing access to fitness and health facilities. Then they equip those facilities with cutting-edge smart gym equipment and digital solutions. The benefits are clear. Companies see reduced healthcare costs and increased productivity, while fitness facilities benefit from a growing engaged membership base. What really excites me is EGIM's smart fitness ecosystem. By combining their strength equipment with AI-powered software and their corporate wellness platform Wellpast, they are leading the shift to proactive preventative health. This isn't just AI for show. This is the real deal. If you're interested in learning more about eGim and how they're transforming healthcare through exercise, visit eGim.com. That is EGYM.com. Hey friends, this episode of Future of Fitness is proudly brought to you by T-MUP. Since launching in 2012, they've consistently had one mission: facilitate the best customer experiences with the most cutting-edge solution for franchises, studios, gyms, and boxes. Spanning over 4,000 clients in 40 plus countries, T-MUP has a vast global network with its roots right here in North America. Whether it's AI, new features, new partnerships, and new markets, TeamUp's sites are set on raising the bar of the industry to enable their customers to perform and operate at the highest level locally, nationally, and overseas. However, the most reliable APIs in the market, you can deliver premium customer experiences and steal your fitness enterprise with the strongest technological infrastructure our industry has to offer. Empower your staff, engage your members, and unlock your next chapter of growth with software design for you. For a limited time, get a very generous 50% off your first month. To redeem the offer, simply contact the TeamUp sales team and use the promo code THE FUTUREOFFFitness. Head to goteemup.com. That is G-O-T-E-A-M-U-P dot com. Juliet, the quarterly report, one of my favorite things to do. Really exciting. It's good to see you guys. How you been?

Great. So nice to see you guys.

Yeah, so we are in the uh the dog days of summer, as they would say. And uh I love to hear like how you guys summer been before we get into all the things that we normally cover, and we'll we'll touch on that in a second. But uh yeah, Julia, what's what's it been like for you last three or four months?

It's been pretty good. We've been out on the river quite a bit, which we always enjoy, and I'm convinced is still the river canyons are the last place on earth with no actual cell phone service. Although I can tell you that my daughter, Georgia, has the latest phone, and you can be on a beach in a deep river canyon and hold your phone in the air and capture a satellite and at least get like a few techs out. So I guess from a safety perspective, that's pretty nice. But I've heard some horror stories from some guides and outfitters out there where their clients are grabbing a satellite and you know, complaining about wilderness trips in real time to the head office. So, you know, that there's that. But yeah, we've just been trying to get outside. And um, as I mentioned in the pre-roll, our kid is gonna was recruited to play Division I water polo at UC Berkeley. So that's a big load off of our family psyche, I would say. Um, knowing that our kid knows where she's going to school before her senior year of college. So that's kind of what's happened in the Star Starette household. We're good.

Yeah, you guys are doing great, it sounds like. Alex, how about you? What's going on? I know you got some big life events.

Yeah, so uh my daughter Charlotte is uh getting married in a couple weeks in uh outside of Big Sky in Montana. And uh so yeah, I got some advice from from a friend who's had a couple of uh daughters get married already, who said she kept it very simple. It was you know, shut up, pay up, and show up. So I'm I'm trying to do my best. I'm doing my best to follow that that very simple logic. Yeah. Um the uh uh summer in Jackson has been has been amazing weather, a little too dry. So we're a little, you know, we got the high high high uh danger for fire, but uh knock on wood, hopefully we'll avoid that. And uh um I did not get to Wisconsin this summer to the lake country in the northwoods, so I'm a little bummed about that. My wife's been recovering from hamstring tendon surgery, which is going well, but we just couldn't couldn't travel. So that's the only downside.

Well, Eric, tell us about your big event.

Yeah, it's been uh it's been a busy few months. So I did my first gravel bike race, I did the last best race here in uh Whitefish, Montana. So it was it was awesome. I my goal was to finish uh uh without incident, and that was good. So I did, and I kind of liked it, and I think I'm gonna do it again. So um really, really cool. Uh you know, the gravel bike community is something that um I saw them finish the race last year and I was like, yeah, whatever that is, I want to do that. That something about what they're doing seems really cool and the community and all that stuff. So they got me hooked, and uh it's just a great way to enjoy the outdoors and get out there, you know, further than most people can. So that was great. We spent uh a week in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. So uh we did a trail service project out there. That was Julia, I think you would love it. Both of you guys would love it. But Bob Marshall Wilderness, if you're not familiar, is 1.7 million acres of completely untouched conserved land. So nothing mechanized is allowed. You can't even have a wheelbarrow. So everything comes in on your back or um on a horse or a mule, and uh obviously no cell phones, no nothing like that. And we we help clear trail. And uh it was really hard, but super rewarding. And uh I can't wait to do it again. And yeah, lots of family and friends coming through for the summer. It's been uh it's been a lot of fun.

So yeah, well, that's part of my retirement plan, Eric. I was up in the Sierras uh a few years ago hiking on this part of the Pacific Crest Trail, and I ran into this couple in their early 70s, and the husband was carrying on his back this like 20-foot-long saw, somehow like yeah, cross-cut saw, and it was just this husband and wife team in their early 70s, and they were just they would just hike in and clear trail and remove logs, and they were, of course, so fit and so awesome and friendly. And Kelly and I are like, we want to be like those people, like we need to do trail work when we retire. Yeah, so I totally get it.

It was it was really motivating, it was really cool. And again, getting to use all those old school tools was was pretty interesting. I mean, I would still would I have liked a chainsaw? Yes, that would have been much better.

This is this is this is a learning lesson for sure.

Well, it's uh it's great. I'm glad everyone's having a great summer. You guys have some huge life events, so congratulations on all those things. Let's let's get into it. There's a lot to talk about. I feel like every time we do this, we add another layer uh to it and you know provide the feedback that I've gotten over the past few months when we do these to you for for you guys and for the audience. But Alex, you approached me about doing this segment, I think, two years ago, saying, Hey, you think there's a uh opening in the market, there's a there's uh reporting that could be done, right? Deeper dives into what's going on in the industry. And since we've continued to do these, it's Julie and I were joking about people who you know who would never pay attention to quarterly reports. You know, now like I'll talk to them and they'll be like, lifetime's crushing it, huh? Like, yeah, like what do you, you know, and I'm like, oh, this is great, right? You know, then Julia, you had sent something similar you want to share with that one. It was pretty funny as well.

Yeah, shout out to my friend Travis, who listens all the time to this religiously from Arizona, and then we have these in-depth text exchanges and reports about the state of the state of the fitness and wellness business. So who knew? Who knew that this would strike a nerve with certain people?

Yeah. And I think it's important. You know, it's important that people understand at a high level what's going on in the industry because it may not affect your day-to-day now. But at some point, it's nice to know the trends, it's nice to know what's going on globally and nationally and regionally, and and what Wall Street thinks about what our industry is doing.

So that being said, one other quick go ahead, one other quick comment there, too, that I've gotten just from a lot of people is people I think thought there were more public fitness companies or and or they never thought about it. Um, and that's been a piece of feedback I've gotten that's been very interesting. That people are like, wait, there's only four real public fitness companies. Like somehow that is a shocking piece of information that people didn't know until they listened to this.

Yeah. Yeah. And there are a couple others, you know, in in Europe, there are a couple and technically public in Italy. Um, and there are a couple really small, uh like Beach Body still public, and uh Trainer is still public. Um but the market caps are so small that it's um I don't know that it's that uh sort of you know enlightening to talk about them. Yeah, but I mean you know, we want to expand.

We've got these big four, the big four.

Yeah, we we have the big five now because we added garment, right? And I think it's a nice, it's a nice each of them are really good representatives of different parts of the market. I mean, we're gonna talk about Garmin, right? So the wearable technologies, we're gonna talk about lifetime, so kind of that resort lifestyle vibe that they've developed, which is really special and unique. Pelotons, so the connected space planet, the HVLP, um, and exponential, the boutique. So these are, you know, they're they're representative of pretty core pillars of of what our industry has to offer. And I didn't even think about that until we just started talking about it, but it's true. Um, yeah, it is. And then we're gonna get into uh the executive order for the presidential fitness test and you know, some insights that we have on that, what that means for our industry potentially, or if there's opportunities there. We want to touch on also the Ready Save podcast, Juliet, that you did with uh Dr. Jessica Neurik. I believe I'm saying that correct. That was really um insightful and what that means for public health and Maha, especially. And then the business longevity, like how is the actual business side of this longevity movement doing? And you know, it's showing early signs of cracks, but also, you know, still a very strong movement that I think people are, as you said, I think a couple episodes ago, Alex, we're we're still trying to figure out this model, right? Um, and lastly, if we have time, if we have time, um, I would love to talk about the CrossFit marketing campaign, which is fuck the quick quick fix, CrossFit is the cure. So we're allowed one F-bomb per episode um to maintain our PG 13 status. So I just used it. Uh, but yeah, it's uh a lot of interesting stuff. So let's um let's see, let's start in with uh with Garmin. So Garmin, wow. I mean, I was looking through this. So they recorded uh Q2 revenue of 1.81 billion. So that's 20% up year over year. Uh the fitness seg segment absolutely exploded. So 41% growth. And I believe this means that category is leading out of all their categories within Garmin, right? 3.9 billion in cash and marketable securities. And uh the question is, and you know, we'll get into a lot of what you guys want to talk about here, but how sustainable is this growth, right? I don't know. So yeah, who would like to go first on that one? Alex, you want to kick us off?

Yeah, I I mean the fitness segment is yeah, is their fastest growing and largest, 41% growth in the quarter. That I don't think that's sustainable. They probably uh uh you know it's it's got a lot of momentum, but 41% would be that would be tough. We probably you know, I think they had they had a couple of of really successful launches. I think another you know, Forerunner, and I'm not that familiar with all the models. They seem to have about a thousand. But the fact that the the uh they're becoming sort of the go-to for fitness watches and you know wearables is um uh it's pretty remarkable because there's there is competition. I mean it's you're it's a pretty, you know, you're going you're going up against some really some really good good other players like like Apple and you know Polar and Sunto. And so uh yeah, I mean you guys I think are Garmin users, right? I'm not, but yeah, I don't know. What do you what do what do you think it's sustainable, Julia?

I mean, I would be shocked if it was sustainable, but I do love because I'm such a fan of the company, I love seeing this huge explosion in their you know fitness segment. And it doesn't seem sustainable to me, but I don't know. You know, I this is just an end of one, but I do feel like in my own community, I've seen more and more people switch from Apple Watches to Garmin. And often that is just because of the charging. I mean, Apple has gotten way better since their early, you know, early Apple watches, but that a lot of people just prefer being able to charge their watch once or twice a week versus daily or however often you have to do it now with an Apple Watch. So I still think that's to from what I can tell from my non-scientific examination of my own people in the fitness space, that's a big draw to their watches. But yeah, I mean, I don't know how you can keep up 41% growth. That's it's a lot. But I mean, this can it continues to boggle my mind, this company.

Yeah, what's what's amazing about them, I one thing is that they're uh they're spending a lot of money on research and development. Like for the quarter, I think it was over 250 million dollars. And they keep innovating, right? It's just an innovation machine. And the innovations, I mean, it's not they have plenty of money to innovate with, uh there are so many ways to innovate, and yet they seem to find the right ways to do it, you know, whether it's solar charged on the face or or the, you know, just they're they're uh they're uh they're very uh savvy about how they improve their products.

Well, you know, the uh in the interviews I've done with their executives, in especially in the garment health areas, we talked about this before, is like if if you're in their scuba diving watch division, use scuba dive. Like that's what they do. So it's like they bring their passions into what they're doing. So then when the innovation in the RD takes place, it's people who are actually enjoy that activity. So I'm guessing there's no shortage of fitness people out there or endurance people who are probably dying to work for Garmin. And to your point, too, like Juliet, when I went on that trip, I was telling you guys about hours a week off grid, everyone had an Apple Watch had to bring their solar uh chargers for their watches, right? Like I charged my Garmin once before I left, and when I was done, I still had like 60% battery, and that's a big deal. I think if you enjoy the outdoors, you're in the fitness, like that battery life is is a really nice thing to have. And uh, I mean, as far as sustainability of this growth, I think it's I I there's no way.

There's no way. Well, the other thing that that I wonder, and maybe you could shed some light on this, Alex. I don't know, but you know, I last bought a Garmin in I remember the year because it was 2020, COVID, you know, so we always like that's how bookmark it's easy to remember things. I bought mine in 2020, and this thing is still going perfectly strong in you know late 2025. So to me, that you know, uh it's not it's not a throwaway product, it's not something that lasts for one or two years. So, you know, if they're gonna keep up this growth, they're gonna have to get people like me to get a new one more often or have have a quiver of different watches. Um, because I don't know about you, but mine, you know, mine is old and still is great. And I just same I went on a six-day river trip and I charged it before I left and it still had, you know, I'm I'm not using the GPS, so I'm not, you know, sucking out the battery on that, but it still had it was still working when I got off the river in six days. So I don't know what you guys think about that, but to me, that is it's a positive because it creates this huge brand loyalty because I'm like, you know, you and I can't stop talking about this. And at the same time, you know, I only have to buy a watch like once every eight years.

Yeah, right. Well, that's what they're banking on is that you're gonna buy a bike, you know, a bike computer, bike radar, and uh and a sleep monitor, and you know, whenever you buy any of those wearables or or um or computers, you're gonna look at Garmin first, and it'll be part of the family of of your uh your devices. Sort of like Apple, you know, Apple does with with uh in their family of devices.

Well, to your point on that, Alex. So I have a Garmin dog collar, I have the chest strap, I have the GPS emergency unit, and my wife, I got my wife a Garmin watch. I'm I'm gonna get one again soon. Um, but to the point, Julia is like this thing is I've had it for five or six years. It's big and clunky, but it works extremely well, and I could hammer a nail with this thing, right? If I needed to. Like it's it's just uh it's a just a badass piece of equipment. So yeah, I mean, I'm fully invested. And I guess you get people like us talking about it all the time, and maybe we sell a couple over here, right? So she's telling me it should be sponsoring this episode, but uh it really should, because we're huge fans.

I'm a huge fan.

All right.

Um, let's talk about lifetime next. So as we're talking about, right? Slan all day, I think is what you said last time, Juliet. So revenue per membership hit record of $888 quarterly. So that's uh nearly $3,200 annually. Their lowest churn rate in 30-year history. And they did that while achieving 11.2% same glow club growth, net debt leverage down to 1.8. So you can 1.8x. Hopefully, you can explain that out. So, yeah, I mean that this whole four seasons of fitness model seems to be working. They have weight lists, premium pricing power. Where where can this go? Like, how good are they gonna get?

I mean, they seem to be crushing the model of you know, lifting spend per member. I think they're bringing in like, you know, they have these family memberships and youth programming, so they're figuring out a way kind of like we talked about with Garmin to just, you know, keep their existing people happy, bring in some new people, but keep those people spending a lot of money, which is obviously working really well for them.

Yeah, the the only thing I saw that was a bit of a blemish, maybe, is 2% membership growth. So that was pretty that was pretty low. And I don't know if they're getting to capacity in the in the clubs, uh, or if you know their pricing is getting a little out of reach for some people. They definitely have, you know, post-COVID, post-IPO uh have been ramping up their pricing pretty pretty aggressively. But you know, it's it their margin on EBITDA was like close to 28%, which also has to be a record for them. Um so it's a really healthy model where um you know you can grow profitability without growing membership that much, because growing membership, you know, you gotta advertise, you gotta pay commissions, you gotta you know, it has it has a lot of cost associated with it. So if you can keep your existing members happy, keep your membership uh retention really high and keep getting existing members to spend more money, that's like that's like a perfect that's a perfect setup. Um and uh I mean it's uh it's a it's an expensive business to maintain, like the the maintenance capex is huge. Building new units is really expensive. So I don't think they're gonna figure out a way to run it as a as an asset light sort of business or capital light business, like like Planet Fitness is. And that's sort of why, you know, at the end of the day, Planet Fitness will have a better valuation, I would say, a better multiple of uh on their on their earnings because they just don't need to spend that much capital, whereas lifetime spends just you know boatloads. Um I think they were close over 200 million in in the second quarter. So it's just yeah, it's an uh you know capital uh intensive business to operate.

Do you think uh that a model like Lifetimes is recession proof? Like if the economy takes a significant turn, like you know, HVLP, I think we've always seen is fairly recession proof. Boutique, pretty vulnerable, right? But uh something like this, like do you think, yeah, what what have we seen? Do we know anything historically, Alex, about something like a model like this in during a recession time? I mean you can only handle it.

I think it's it they've been recession resistant. Um, we haven't had a recession in a while. So it's it's it's been, you know, I I mean if you go back to 08-09, their stock definitely suffered, but but they recovered when we came out, and um, you know, it's it's a it's definitely more more impacted than HVLP and Planet Fitness for sure.

Do you think, Alex, that give given that their model right now seems to be keeping their existing members happy but having them spend more, that if we did have a recession, they would sort of lose that a little bit because people would keep their basic membership but then stop, you know, stop what the extras and that might harm them. Or I don't know what what do you think about that?

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. I I uh are you guys forecasting a recession? Is that what I'm hearing?

It's it's come up a lot in conversations on this show about uh you know what what's who's recession proof and who's not. So I feel like maybe people are feeling like there's maybe it's tariffs that are scaring people, maybe it's a lot of different things. I just we haven't I wish I had something. I I don't have anything wooden around me.

I'm knocking on I've got wood right here. I'm knocking on it for you.

But it does feel like it's been a long time, right? I don't know. Like you see the stock market shooting up right now and hitting record highs all the time. I don't know. I'm not an economist, but my gut, my gut says, Yeah, maybe.

Yeah, I mean they would say, I know what Ron would say. He would say, if we get a recession, that's good for me in terms of buying real estate, building clubs, my cost per club is gonna go down. It'll drive construction costs down, so you get a benefit from that, and real estate costs generally. So he'll get some, you know, some benefit in terms on the cost side. But uh yeah, I don't think it you know, I don't I don't think it'd be overall net net positive for for the the pricier clubs like Equinox or Lifetime uh and the HLPs, even for the HLPs, it's it's not great. Just because you lose the marginal, the marginal member who may keep their membership but really are is not using, and then they're they're looking for you know ways to save money so they they'll cut it.

Yeah. Well, hopefully we don't have to talk about any of that. So yeah, and it's it's been really I I've learned a lot about this company too. I've you know been able to uh talk to Jeff's Weefle a lot over the last few months and what he's you know, the former president, COO, and head of the Miora program, and just you know, they're RD and you know, they're always looking to innovate. You know, Lacey, their AI agent, they're not outsourcing that, they're developing their own. So yeah, I think it's uh it's a great brand. Any other thoughts on on Lifetime? I mean, once again, crushes. Yeah, I mean, I I I would say what you thought of their AI effort. I haven't I haven't seen it. I don't know. Yeah, I I think it's from what I understand, it's essentially it's you know, it's it's a guide for the the members to you know walking to the club or provide insights. Um but no, I haven't I haven't had an actual opportunity to see it. I would like to see it, so yeah, maybe I'll I'll talk to Jeff about that. But I'd be curious, maybe we should do an AI episode and kind of talk about uh what's going on there because that's that comes up a lot.

Yes, yeah.

So uh well, yeah. Any any last thoughts on lifetime before we move on to our friends at Planet? Cool, let's do it. So Planet Fitness, man. Here they go. So 900,000 new members, so they reached 20.8 million total. Uh still they're yeah, still the the king of member acquisition. 8.2% same club sales growth. So uh they had their first price increase in 25 years, and that's for new members only, I believe. Check me on that. Successfully implemented the click to cancel. So uh, you know, as far as stewardship of the industry and consumer-friendly policies, I think that's that's uh a nice move for them. Uh and then the uh yeah, and so that was the other question I have was about their recession proof nets and how well you guys thought about that. But yeah, for first take, what's what do you guys think about the quarter?

I mean, the I I just have a couple things. I again I'm always kind of blown away by this company, but I read that they opened 23 new facilities in just in this quarter, which uh, you know, I I don't have occasion to see that many planet fitness locations, but because I've been traveling a bit this summer, I've seen them around. Um, and they're always gigantic. And so I thought I was impressed by that. I also it seemed like speaking of this sort of youth and family thing that I think Lifetime is is trying to tackle as well. I think their high school summer pass was a really good idea. I don't know if they have numbers on that yet, but I thought it was a great idea because if you can get kids excited to go in, that's potentially a lifetime member. So they just seem to be doing great.

Yeah, the the uh I think the numbers were fine. A little bit of slowdown expected because of click to cancel. So a higher, you know, a little bit higher dropout rate expected in the second half. And uh so yeah, so they pushed down their projection on on same store sales, and you know that the effect of click to cancel is they said about a 12-week uh return to normal, but but the the dropouts do go up a bit in that in that period. Um and I I was uh I was impressed, and I give you know I give them a lot of credit for uh implementing click to cancel, which they didn't have to do because it got it got struck down by a federal court. And you know, most of the industry is not uh implementing it, uh, as far as I know. I don't think anybody really wants to, except Planet saying, you know, it's the right thing to do, let your members manage their memberships in a way that's easy. You know, there have been a lot of complaints historically about how hard it was to cancel at at their clubs and you know, across the industry generally. So, you know, the the the CEO said, look, we're uh we're we're we're we want to do the right thing by the members, and you know, we're we're gonna lead. We're gonna lead on this issue. And I think I was impressed with that. You know, our industry organization, HFA, is you know, fought tooth and nail against click to cancel and you know declared victory when it got knocked out. And you know, in Planet Fitness, the biggest operator in the industry is saying, you know, we're we support it, it's the right thing to do.

I think that's really interesting. And I actually, as you were talking about this, Alex, I was wondering what Peloton does. Do you know what they're can't? I mean, it seems like when you're in connected fitness, it's easier that there's more click to cancel, but I actually have never been a member of Peloton. How do they do their cancellation?

I don't know, but I'm assuming it's it's easy. Yes, it's click to cancel. They I don't know that they're subject to the rule, but but but maybe they probably are. They probably are actually. But they did not talk about it.

Yeah.

And uh but anyway, yeah, I thought that was I thought that was interesting. And then and then their uh their black card membership is gonna get it probably gonna get a press increase coming. So uh, you know, I think I think they're pushing up prices a bit. They did on the basic membership last year from $10 to $15 for new members. And in the black card, I think they were testing a price around $30 a month. And um, I wouldn't be surprised if if they implement that uh in the in the second half.

The other thing I noticed just in can um with lifetime and planet, after looking at these companies sort of quarter after quarter, is it seems like, at least so far, this sort of like athletic country club that Lifetime has, this more like premium model, is doing great. And this like low-cost planet model is doing great. And then the middle, middle market gyms, connected fitness, these boutique gyms are always doing as well. And so I'm like, is there just are we going to get to this place, which I do feel like we were at before CrossFit and before before boutique fitness, where that that was it? It was like you could either go to the country club or the 24-hour fitness kind of model. And I I hope we're not going back to that. But that was one of my takeaway, you know, my sort of broad takeaways from looking at all four of these companies, especially quarter after quarter. I was like, is that where we are? That you know, there are these two models that seem to work real well or generally pretty well. And these other two that slot in the middle that struggle.

Yeah. This is this is actually a real this is a point I want to bring up with you guys because I think it's a really interesting discussion point. And I've had conversations with um, you know, a couple big franchisee groups, right? And uh who else should I talk to? Pete Moore from uh Integrity Square, and you know, everyone's kind of predicting the same thing. And I don't even think it's a prediction, I just think it's the way it's gonna happen now because it's just there's a ton of private equity money coming in, just a boatload. And they're going into these groups and they have to open these franchise locations, like they have to open. And Pete Moore's advice was like, hey, if you're an independent health club operator, maybe a local HVLP or something like that, and someone comes knocking on your door and says, Hey, we want to buy your building and turn it into a crunch or an EOS, he's like, You should sell because they're gonna have to open all these at some point, and they have a ton of money to do it, and they're gonna come in with huge marketing budgets, and it's gonna be really hard to compete. And that's kind of like a very solid prediction for the next three to five years, and what does that mean for everybody else? You know, is it's are we starting to see this tremendous era of consolidation across our industry where there's only gonna be, you know, 10 to 15 major brands standing at the end of the day? I don't know, but it seems to be like there's a good chance that that could be happening right now. So want to want to get your guys' thoughts and take on that.

Yeah, I I mean I feel like with the sale of crunch and EOS to to the you know bigger private equity investors, I think Pete's right. You're gonna you're gonna see just hundreds of new locations pop up. And to me, I don't know if it's consolidation or saturation. You know, it's just how many you know, I think I think planet fitness is within a 12-mile or 12-minute drive of 170 million people in the country, so about half the people. Um you know, if uh if EOS and Crunch and and the other guys are are opening new that many new locations, aren't they gonna just be down the street from from Planet in a lot of cases, or from Crunch, or from each other? And uh I I feel like I've seen that movie before with 24 hours and LA Fitness and you know Bally's and it just felt like you know, you'd go visit one of those clubs and you'd look across the street and there was a competitor. Yeah. Yeah, great location. So it just feels like saturation is coming for for the low, the HVLP model. And uh, but you know, that's that it's it's hard. It's it's it's hard for me to really understand or to visualize sort of where the the white space is in that market. It feels it feels like there are lots of those guys already, and um, aren't they gonna just sort of cannibalize each other and then they they marginalize their businesses? And I mean that's what happened with 24 hour and LA Fitness, I feel like in California, certainly, and elsewhere. But uh yeah, so that's my my concern about that, you know, over uh overcapitalizing that sector. But it's been, you know, can't argue with success they've had. They've been they've been growing for, you know, for five, six, seven years like like uh weeds, and um seem to be making a lot of money.

What about the mid-range to Juliet's point, like the $50 to $80 membership? That type of gym. I don't know if we were qualifying that. Like my local gym would. You know, we pay $50, $60 a month per person. It's great.

I mean, uh, you know, I think there's a place in the middle for good operators who who um who provide a little more service, a little more, you know, a little better class, you know, offering, a little better, but you know, a little more than than uh the HVLP offer, but don't try to compete with with Equinox or or uh or Lifetime. I mean, you see it in the hotel world, right? There are plenty of hotels in the middle, like a Hilton Garden Inn, that is actually, you know, does really well. So I I I'm not as I think it's easy to say, you know, it's a barbell, you got to be on one end or the other. But if you if you dig in, you'll see a lot of operators look probably like your local guy who, you know, is in an affordable range and and uh and the value proposition is really good.

Yeah, and I also think those mid-range gyms can really lean into the community piece. I realize people go to lifetime and it's a social, you know, it's often a very social thing as well. So I'm not saying that's not part of it, but I do think a lot of those local gyms can lean in, those mid-market gyms can lean into the community piece in a way that you can't at those bigger institutions. And I think that just creates this sense of loyalty and love for the the brand. And if it's affordable as well, it sort of ticks all those boxes because you know, as long as going to the gym is is part exercising and part community, I think that's where they can really sort of set themselves apart.

Yeah, right. But it may, it may not be a uh private equity-backed model. It may be more of a mom and pop, you know, owner owner-run, community type facility. Um so there could be a hell of a lot of them, like restaurants that are independently owned. You know, they still compete against the chains, but but they, you know, they're not they're not gonna open up a hundred of them.

Well, let's uh let's move on to Peloton, which is we've been a fan of for a long time, right?

And uh rooting for them. We're always rooting for them.

Well, good news, JSTAR. So they had their first profitable corner. Um, they had 21.6 million net income and positive operating income. So very exciting for them. Uh connected fitness gross margin hit 17.3 percent. Um, so it was 8.3% last year, 112.4 million free cash flow. That's gotta be good. And CEO Peter Stern's strategy um becoming a comprehensive wellness platform. And I have a quote on that, but love to get your guys get you guys talking on this first. Juliet? Juliet.

Well, yeah, I mean, I I think they all this cost work they've been doing is working. And I, you know, the their move into wellness, the the only negative thing I I was delighted to see how well they did. I was delighted. Uh, I I would say the only thing that gave me pause because we've talked about it a lot, is that there's sort of this like push into wellness, whatever that means. I mean, I think it means sleep recovery, well-being, nutrition. I don't know what else they would include under wellness, did sort of feel a little bit like, okay, here we go again, another uh initiative that may be gone by the time we meet again in the next quarter. But I mean, it makes sense to me. That's where they should be going as a company. They should be expanding. They have, I mean, what do they have? Two, you know, almost three million members. And so to me, the wellness expansion makes sense. Um, I don't know how they make more money doing that, but it makes sense to me from a program standpoint. And the the only other thing I'd say is it seems like they're they're re-powered, you know, they're they're reselling of used equipment seems to be working well, but then is that undercutting their attempts to sell new equipment? I don't know. Um, but overall, I was very excited to see that they were up.

Yeah. Well, they caught so much shit for so long, right?

Yes.

And uh, you know, it's a great brand. They've they've built uh, you know, a category leading brand and product. And before we get into it, obviously, I just want to read this quote to Juliet's point because I really I'm I'm a sucker for a great quote like this. But CEO said in the share letter to shareholders a profound shift is underway in how we define a life well lived. The ultimate goal is no longer just a long lifespan, but a healthier, more fulfilling one referred to as health span. People are taking control of their health and wellness like never before, and they are looking for a trusted partner to help them on that journey. Peloton was built for this moment. Our combination of premium hardware, intuitive software, world-class instructors, and a deeply engaged community is unmatched. In our next chapter, we will build upon our leadership in cardio to support our members' entire wellness journey, accelerating our progress in strength and mobility, and exploring the new frontiers in mental well-being, sleep, and recovery, nutrition and hydration. And with Peloton, these will not simply by be means to an end, they will be joyful ends until themselves. I mean, that's pretty great quote. Kind of fires me up.

I got I got psyched when I read that too. You know, and another thing I'd say is I feel like they've been pretty darn disciplined. I mean, you can tell me if I'm reading that correctly, Alex, but I do feel like they've been pretty disciplined to try to dig out of this hole for a long time and it's starting to show.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. I um I don't know how to connect all those words with your own new generation, as Juliet said. But he's an event. You know, what what the street cares about is you know, another hundred million of cost savings coming. And that's you know, that's what I think um the numbers guys are gonna focus on because the revenue is not growing. Uh doesn't mean it won't grow, but it isn't growing, and they're not so they ended in fiscal year 25, and they're starting fiscal year 26, but they're projecting revenue down two percent for the next 12 months. So that you know, it it they could raise prices, and I I you know I wrote a LinkedIn post saying they should they should go, you know, from 44 to 49 and on their subscriptions, and and that would uh that would obviously change the revenue profile if they did it. But he didn't talk about that. He I I wouldn't be surprised if they do that, but he's he's not ready to.

uh announce it the tariffs are hitting you know they said the tariff impact of 65 million dollars that's that's a lot i didn't expect that and uh so you know with the cost savings they'll they'll they'll make up uh they could raise the price on the bikes i guess but it seems to i think they'd be there'd be better uh you know better served raising the price on the subscription rather than the bikes but you know the tariff impact is that that could that could be that could be real and uh yeah I think you know I was a little surprised the stock went up uh on that on that report because I didn't I didn't think the numbers were that encouraging the the the stock price has doubled over the last year so they've gotten they've gotten some love but again primarily with on the expense side because revenue really has not has not moved so they're gonna have to figure out the growth side but but uh in the in the meantime they have a lot of free cash flow and they're taking good care of their members so you know good for them yeah any other can I say something well the this is a summer I I wrote a post about this yesterday and I think it sort of relates to Peloton and I typically don't like to throw any shade on anyone's program and this doesn't have anything to do with financial reports but what I observe when I travel is I go to a lot of hotel and commercial gyms where I see people doing strength-like things in hotel gyms and commercial gyms and I fear that some of the Peloton strength programs are are strength like things and not actually going to make anybody stronger or improve their bone density or muscle mass. Again, I'm not a member but I see a lot of people in hotel gyms with their Peloton app open and doing I hate to say it what seems to be a lot of stupid stuff that definitely is not going to make them stronger under the perception that just like lifting the weight off the rack and moving it around in space means you're gonna get stronger. So so you know at some point they're gonna have to make programs that work I think from a strength standpoint only there's so many amazing programs they have many of which I've done with my friends and they're all awesome but I just I think this this is I think industry wide I think we're seeing this like everyone's in we've talked about it on the podcast in the past people are really excited about strength programs and I think there's a lot of strength programs out there that might not actually make people stronger.

So I think Eric is the rettes are going a going to have a Peloton making a mirror program in the world.

Yeah they're making a mirror it's unlikely it's unlikely but you know I saw a lot of weird I saw a lot of weird stuff in hotel gyms and commercial gyms where I was like that person is spending an hour and a half of their day doing that thinking it's gonna lead to this and seems like a waste of their time so I want to throw shade but yeah a lot of open Peloton apps with a lot of weird weightlifting things going on in hotel gyms.

And it's hard right once you get a certain amount of like knowledge and in and then you go into a gym I can't I just I I subconsciously judge and I don't know why. You know my wife has made me promise I won't coach people I don't know so I don't yeah most of the time.

Yeah I it's hard it's hard because I do want to take on that mantra always that like all movement is good movement, which it is it is it is and then it's still hard it's still hard. So I'm sorry I digress off of that.

No it's great it's great. Let's um yeah let's get on to exponential so like not the best news right so um for CEO in 18 months uh so Mike Newzo we we'll talk about that I'm sure uh so that was effective immediately August 7th so as a recording very very recently to this recording mark king resigned yeah so revenue down 1% despite 12% system wide sales growth I mean we'll we'll get into some of the stuff I'm sure Alex will highlight some of the numbers but I mean what is what is this a sign of is it you know leadership is it the category of boutique um maybe is it signs of the time like what what what's going on here you think it's not it's not super positive.

Julia you want yeah I I I would actually love to hear what you have to say Alex because I thought the same thing as Eric I was like doesn't look great I don't really understand what's going on.

Yeah yeah so we saved we saved the the um the toughest one for last we did the couple things I'll point out um Pilates I think is slowing down and that is their crown jewel that's the goose that laid the golden egg whatever you want to call it I think that's slowing down a bit and the way they're responding to that is they're spending 20 million dollars on marketing for Pilates brand marketing for Club Pilates in the second half of the year that's a lot of money for them for you know that typically they've never done a brand campaign for uh club Pilates and you know usually when you spend a lot of money on marketing it's because you're seeing a slowdown. So I think Pilates we may have hit peak Pilates and we may be you know flatlining or maybe coming down a little bit. Everybody's jumping into it uh not everybody but a lot of people and um even their former CEO has a new Pilates brand uh which I I don't understand how he can compete um you know against his former company although maybe he has some geographical restrictions on where he's gonna open his Pilates studios uh but if not you know and he knows basically where their best studios are he's just gonna you know pop pop open competing studios three blocks away or whatever a mile away so anyway so there's that you know I think that stretch lab had been kind of a a you know a success story and then it something something didn't work and maybe they overexpanded or the you know somehow the the um you know customers just stopped coming back so that's a bit of a troubled asset right now you know I think yoga's doing fine and I think bar is actually doing pretty well so uh and then they have these you know they got rid of cycling and boxing which I mean those are big modalities right I mean I yeah and I thought maybe getting rid of those would help their overall numbers that they that fact would we would see something positive out of that but it didn't seem like it really helped yeah I think it'll help on expenses in in the next quarters they'll probably you know cut some cut some uh headquarters staff um by so they're down to six brands and um and they have a new CEO who uh has zero fitness uh experience comes out of Petco and iMart uh so I'm sure he's a great like corporate you know CEO type but in terms of really understanding where to go in fitness I don't you know I don't know that he's gonna have that uh aptitude so that acumen we'll we'll you know we'll see they're still closing a lot of clubs a lot of studios and uh so it's it's kind of a cleanup you know turnaround situation and with your crown jewel limping a little bit you know let's go make it extra challenging well categorically boutique is not having its best day it's been a lot of the operators are talked in that space with the consultants in that space you know it's all pretty universal it's just it's a tough thing and um you know I don't know if it's HVLP eating everyone's lunch right now or what it may be, but I think you know consumers are opting in for the full service menu of one location versus having maybe two different gym memberships, something like that.

I I don't know exactly I'm sure there's a lot of people who know more about the consumer behavior at that point but boutique's just not you know and everything's cyclical I'm sure it's all going to come back right but uh but yeah it's it's not it's tough right now in boutique and I think this is just a a very public facing symbol of what those struggles could be. So but yeah Pilates um you know everyone's talked about Pilates for many years now um they said it was you know going to continue to rise for the next 10 years and maybe maybe it will maybe just not in this market. You know I think the US market is is there's a lot of Pilates and even in my small town there's a lot of Pilates and uh we have a lot of Pilates here.

A lot of Pilates you know one of the things I wonder about Pilates is that there is a fair bit of chatter with all this interest in strength training there's a fair bit of chatter out there about how people are like yes Pilates amazing as a movement practice and um there's a lot of amazing things about Pilates but like if you're gonna give you know a true strength and conditioning practice an A in terms of building strength like Pilates gets a C for building strength. So it doesn't it's not zero, but it does it's not getting an A. And so I wonder if some of that transition is you know A, what you said about this the sort of boutique gyms and B that people are interested in strength training and they're not going to want to join they're not going to want to have a lifetime in a Pilates or you know they're not going to want to have two and maybe they're just prioritizing the strength piece a little more.

Yeah well if you only have so much time to exercise we'll uh we'll see uh what tends to happen you know if you go back and look at cycling you know that took off obviously with SoulCycle and others and then it just got saturated right because the barriers to entry for boutique are not very high. It's just not that hard to rent space and put a bunch of of Pilates uh reformers in and and um have a good little yeah a good little business so you know it this is what happens right it's the same movie we've probably seen before and and you get saturation and then you get you know kind of shrinkage and and then you get uh some homeostasis and then you know you you uh and then another trend or fad emerges right and we don't know we don't know what that's gonna be lower fads orange theory was you know on top of the world and then post-COVID they kind of hit generally sort of lost its allure and Pilates took off and now I think yeah I could be wrong there could be another leg up for Pilates but it feels like it's probably you know plateaued at this point.

Well so that's it for the big five let's uh what do we want to go with this? Do you guys want to do presidential fitness next or you want to do let's do presidential yeah let's do that. Yeah the executive order came out right I read it I've never read an ex I'll be honest I've never read an executive order. So um here we are strange times indeed but uh so basically you know and they they're framing the the American health crisis right so rates of obesity chronic disease inactivity and poor nutrition are at a crisis level particularly amongst our children um they frame health as a national security issue so quoting threatens the future of readiness of the United States workforce and military so what is actually happening besides an executive order and that's you know I'm not really sure but I know that they have they've administered by health and human services with education department support. So they've officially reinstated the presidential fitness test. I don't think we know the details on that. They have a new 30 member presidential council. I don't know if that's been established yet with two year terms and a couple other things and then they have explicit mandate for partnerships with professional athletes, sports organizations, players associations, influential figures, nonprofit organizations and community groups so too early to say like what what what are the thoughts here you guys I know Juliet you and this is a great time to reference also I think the podcast that you guys had Juliet on the ReadySate podcast with Dr.

Jessica Neurick which I learned a lot about public health versus you know I guess individual health yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean I I read the whole presidential order too and it's like speaking my language um and in fact on a personal level I have so many positive memories of taking the presidential physical fitness test and receiving my award and like crushing the flexed arm hang. So I do feel like it's sort of a rite of passage for kids. And I think everybody has a story about it, although I think it can be a negative experience for a lot of kids too. So um you know I was good at the flexed arm hang. I think a lot of kids especially now are going to be terrible at a lot of things. But you know and and I like that they're developing a council. I think some of the people on the council including the guy who is one of the sort of like speakers about this presidential presidential physical fitness test is maybe not someone you'd want like near your kids, but you know that's neither here nor there. I think it signals some positive things to me. And at the same time I feel like it's a little bit like giving all of our kids in America a Spanish test without having them take a Spanish class. What's the point of a test if if you can't if we're not we don't have an underlying really quality well funded physical education program. What are we talking about a little bit? So to me it felt I when I read it I was like yes yes yes and then when I sat with it I was like this feels a little bit performative without an underlying real funded policy to put physical education back into schools like a test is just like a test without a plus. So that was kind of my overarching thought what did you guys think?

Same like I it all sounds amazing like but I'm like I didn't see anything concrete in there I'm like okay every person but who are the 30 people like what what's the what's the actual test right like they even they we don't know what the test is no we don't know that yet so there's a lot it's just an or it's just a piece of paper right now. And uh you know to one of the articles that you sent us Alex you know they mentioned some of the people that potentially might be on the board or the the panel or whatever it is.

I was like Lawrence Taylor and he's like yeah that's the guy I was talking about yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah I don't know if he's who you want leading an organization related to kids but I mean you know I think the Starret vibe on on that on that list of people then you know we've been trying to get on the president's physical fitness council for years we've been trying to get on but we have we even like officially applied under the Biden administration but so far no luck but maybe one day so give it to us Alex what's your take you're too qualified what do you think Alex you're too qualified um I mean I you know I feel like when we talked last we were optimistic that we were gonna see real focus on you know fitness and preventive health and uh you know and then here we are three months later and we're you know we talked about Casey Means three months ago and Surgeon General and while we weren't you know 100% enthusiastic about it it it felt like uh uh the right direction at least and that that has stalled I don't I haven't seen any you know hearings or any scheduled neither um you know I thought the Fit Act was gonna get finally included in legislation that got signed. Yeah I know Congress Congress you know the House of Representatives included it and then the Senate cut it um even after watering it down so you know the presidential fitness test it's you can't you can't I can't argue with the that it's the right direction to go in but I as with you I'm skeptical that the resources are there from the federal government to actually make make something happen.

And then if you wait for the states to do it do they have the resources you know does your local school board have the resources um so I yeah I'm I'm uh I'm hopeful but but skeptical it's just a piece of paper right now I mean it's it's not bad right it's not a bad thing you know it's it's out there people are talking about it again um but yeah I think to the point we'd love to see a little bit a little bit action so yeah here's the thing is like there's a lot of and I think it's the frustration Juliet that I think you're feeling too with you know apply apply all that's like there's a lot of people within our industry who are very capable and super willing to get involved in an extremely meaningful way. Right. But we're like we're stifled right when I've like if you guys have applied for this so many times or why isn't anyone knocking your door or like you know I talked to Greg Cook the other day like why would they talk about that would be amazing.

Yeah like that we can all think of like 50 people that we personally know who would be amazing. You know it's like I don't care if it's me but it'd be great if it was these amazing qualified people we have in our industry.

My fear and I hope I'm wrong is that this turns into a panel or a board of fitness influencers. And that would be like and not the ones like not ones who are actually teaching correctly but like the actual influencers right and that would that would that would be yeah yeah that would be concerning. But I hope y'all know yeah kind of what Trump does right. So anyway we'll see it's too early to say hopefully in the next quarter we'll have some great news to report on this but uh yeah I can hold my breath right now. Um let's talk about longevity. So uh yeah Alex you circulated a piece amongst us uh the New Yorkers uh Men Trying to Live Forever it was really an interesting one it was great it was great you know oh so we talked a lot about this and I think the big questions right like there's so much money being spent and you know the people I know who are in this space especially trying to do scalable models and I think the one the models seem to work are like ones that are single location back with a you know a personal like someone is a doctor like one doctor in a location you know who charges a lot of money and their expertise is is in-house right but the making it scalable for the masses seems to be a very big challenge and I know a lot of very smart people and um all of us do on this call who are tackling it and they're you know when I talk to them they're saying this is hard like this is a hard model to scale for a multiple reasons. So what do we what do we see? I mean and you know I'll add one more thing because I I thought forward health I've interviewed them twice on this podcast which I thought was a super cool like man when I interviewed those guys I was fired up after I'm like this is going to be this is going to change everything. This is amazing these guys really pitched it hard. I was hook line and sinker on what they're doing and then just didn't go anywhere for probably a ton of reasons, right? So I I don't know. I mean what are you guys feeling about this? I I'm still optimistic about the category in general but I I think maybe we're trying to apply diff models we already know to something that's completely different.

Yeah I mean I don't know I I would love Alex's opinion I do not know what to make of it from a business perspective. I am going to recommend a friend of mine for your podcast though, Eric, Dr. Darshan Shaw who's running Next Health Clinics and he again I don't know how they're going from a business perspective. And he's certainly not one doctor one location but I do think he has you know he really does sort of say hey we need this he's he's like I'm a real physician practiced I think there's uh we need medicine traditional medicine as is but we need a parallel model um he he's very well spoken about it but I don't know how it's going from a business perspective he seems to be doing well and expanding you know but I yeah I don't I don't even know what to make of it.

I don't know what do you think Alex I think we heard uh the Next Health CEO on on the podcast recently and he was he's he's very smart for sure he's doing a franchise model um yeah which in the medical world seems hard like really hard it's really hard But but good for him for trying, you know, a different model. Um I think that a lot of the people who are looking for longevity clinics are uh are spending a lot of money. And and they're they you know the the article highlights that it's mainly men, mainly rich men, basically. Um and and it's it's um uh one one person said you know it's bas who's in the who has a longevity clinic is that what they do is they optimize the most optimized people. So the people who are getting optimized getting like more optimized. Okay, you know, they're going Equinox or they're going a biograph or they're going a Peter Atias thing, or they and they're you know, some of them are probably you know not very healthy, but I think a lot of them are already um, they're probably like us, you know, they're committed. Maybe they're you know my age, and they're like, you know, I could probably use a plan instead of trying to do it myself. And I could probably use a thousand biomarkers or that's probably over over the top, but but anyway, so it seems like it's really the tip of the you know, the tip of the pyramid that's that's being that's interested in this, um, at this point, and they can actually pursue uh the you know the the longevity plan and go to the clinic and and then it seems like there's a lot of longevity clinics that seem to be cosmetic, like med spas.

Yeah, a lot of aesthetics, right?

So you they call themselves a longevity clinic, but you look at the menu of services and it's it seems mainly you know Botoxy and Yeah, there's so many of those. Right, but they call themselves like biohacking clinics, or so there's a bit of uh, you know, it's a marketing thing to use the longevity word, the health span word, the biohacker word, and then you know, the um yeah, you know, there do seem to be some companies like function, I want to say, is is growing really well. Seems to be, and that's mainly diagnostics, right? Testing the so there are some um you know signs of successes. Um and you know, I guess that's a longevity business. You're spending 500 bucks, you're getting, you know, all these these test results and then insights, I guess. And and I don't know what you do with it. Like if you go to your primary care provider, they're gonna be like, yeah, we don't we don't really do that.

Yeah, I mean, I was just gonna jump in there really quickly on that point, Alex, on the testing that you know, Kelly and I have this as a constant dinner table conversation we're having. And my friend Lisa gave me this phrase that I love where like something's bad value, and you can like see bad value things in in your life everywhere. And I worry a little bit that sometimes these things are gonna start to feel like bad value for people because they're going in and doing all this really expensive testing, and it seems cool. You're like, I got my DEXA and I did my VO2 max test and I did whatever this test and I did a thousand biomarkers. But then what they're being counseled to do to improve those things are sleep eight hours, eat some fruits and vegetables, do a strength and conditioning for like like so the solves for this complex, really expensive testing is like something you can read about on Instagram. Um, it's really like what what the tools we're using to address these issues that people are having are really very basic still. I mean, if you go to a Tia's clinic, you get all what you're paying for is the status, the massive amount of testing. And then, you know, I don't know how many of the protocols these clinics are doing for actual customers that are that advanced. I don't think you're getting an advanced protocol. So I wonder if at some point people are like, well, I just spent 10 grand to do all this testing and all this stuff to be told eat some vegetables. Like, is that bad value? Is that one of the issues? I don't know, but we see so many people are like, should I get my VO2 max test? And we're like, okay, well, what are you gonna do with that data?

Yeah. Well, in the article, I think that's an issue. The article you sent, Alex, about the BC backed um longevity clinics that are struggling in a lot of it, I think is we we still don't know how to what is longevity as a service? Like what really what is it? Like, is it red light therapy? Is it peptides? Is it hormone optimization? Guess what? All those things I just mentioned have been around for a long time and are actually really accessible and not that expensive. Peptides are, you know, kind of expensive now, depending on where you get them. But you know, there's there's a lot of different things in there, which like, well, what is the service offering? And we we've been talking about, I think we talked about this a couple episodes ago about like there we're trying to refine the service offering. And you know, there's certain ones like Miora, I have to say, like something like Lifetimes, like you're already in the club, you have access to all the things, they can direct you in the right way, and then they can retest, you know, quarterly makes a ton of sense, right? They have I think they do, I think they have a right to win there. And then um, you know, I'm still looking, keeping a close eye on Jim Donnelly and Humanot, because obviously he knows knows what he's doing as an operator. He's got a long track record of success. And uh, if anyone can make it work, I think it's them. And there's a couple other ones out there too, but I haven't checked in on them in a while. So it's it's just it's a fun place to talk about it captures the imagination, right? The whole thing about longevity. And uh, you know, I but the thing I was reading about these these longevity guys is like their life quality sounds not that great. Like I feel like I'm having a blast, right? And I'm not really doing any of this stuff.

So there is this meme. I'm gonna find it and send it to you guys because it's Brian Johnson on one side, which I'll be honest, he looks pale and not great. Yeah, looks like a big um, and then there's this like 85-year-old Italian guy who's like way too tan, and he has a cigarette in his mouth and he's holding a glass of wine, and he looks freaking stoked and so good. And they're sort of like, which the meme is just like, and I mean it's so stark. You're kind of like, okay, who wouldn't want to be like the smoking, drinking, tan Italian dude hanging out on the beach, or like you're sleeping in your pot? I don't know. So I mean, there was to me that said it all. I was like, well, that pretty much says it all right there.

Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll see. I think we should touch on this every quarter because it's it's a it's to me, it's fascinating. I think it's a it's a super interesting space, and it's gonna boil down eventually and kind of purifying as something that's you know accessible and clear-cut and like a real offering. But right now, it's just you know, it's wild west because you're firing everywhere.

So it's it's yeah, and you know, I I don't, I mean, I was impressed with the X prize in that story, you know, $101 million prize for you know, in 2030, if you can improve, you know, somebody, somebody's strength and cognitive ability and immune system for you know 20 years or something. But you know, when you think about it, 101 million dollars is really a drop in the bucket. I mean, when you think of how much people they're spending on AI and data centers, you know, we're talking about trillions of dollars, and then you have longevity and we're spending 100 million dollars. Not really gonna move the needle.

Well, I think that's you know, we talk about AI quite a bit, but I mean that's one of the big disruptors in all the spaces, but I think it's very evident here because you can you're pretty soon we're gonna have a personalized doctor, and it's gonna be very inexpensive. And how do you compete with that? I like I talk about all the time. I use my I have my chat GBT that I train that's Eric's Robodoc, and it has all my blood work, it has all my stuff. And it is do I trust it explicitly? No, and should I no? But it's pretty good for most things already, and that's 3.01, right? So I don't know. It's uh fascinating time to be alive, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I the other one that yeah, go ahead, Alex. Go ahead.

No, I yeah, I was I was more um talking about I guess advances in drug therapy that can that can you know mitigate or reverse chronic disease problems. Um and I don't know that maybe AI will generate, will develop those compounds or or pharmaceuticals or but uh I'm assuming that some of it's just gonna have to be the old-fashioned, you know, research and trials and and a hundred million dollars is not gonna not gonna do much.

The other one, just to put on your radar that I've been keeping an eye on because it's Bay Area based, is eternal. Have you guys heard about eternal? They're high performance healthcare for athletes, and you know, they do testing every 90 days. And to me, that's kind of an interesting market because it's not maybe just like the rich guy market, it's sort of trying to broaden it out to people who identify as an athlete, whatever that means. So I think what they're doing seems cool, and I'm keeping an eye on it.

Yeah, they they um have a background from Strava and the athletic, I want to say. But I thought the Strava connection was made that put them in, you know, it it sort of feels like Strava, uh an offshoot of Strava in a in a way, sort of a more, you know, interesting wellness sort of offshoot. And but but going after the same sort of customer.

Yeah, I agree.

Well, I know we're we're running tight on time here, you guys, but I do want to bring up the CrossFit thing because mainly I'm I'm dying to get your your thoughts, Juliet, on this as being kind of an old school CrossFit. Um so they released their new marketing campaign, right, just a couple days ago. So F the quick fix, CrossFit is the cure, uh, is what they're saying. And they're coming after, you know, very old school CrossFit language, like almost straight out of Glassman's mouth, right? Uh we're gonna hit them with the unsexy truth. CrossFit is and always has been the cure to the world's most vexing problem. Eat real food, train with purpose, and push your limits within a community that cares. Our methodology is infinitely scalable. CrossFit is for anyone who walks through the doors of an affiliate, yet no, it is not for everyone, only those willing to put in the work. So there's a bunch more. I urge people to go check it out. If it felt like 2009 again, 2010, right? They're they're coming back. And my question, I guess, is hey friends, this is Eric Malzone, and this episode of the Future of Fitness is brought to you by the Podcast Collective. Since our inception in 2023, we have emerged as the fitness, health, and wellness industry's premier podcast placement agency. We're honored to work with many of the industry's most prominent technologists, thought leaders, startup founders, and business executives. Why? Because they recognize that being on podcasts is the most effective way to authentically connect with their specific target audiences and rapidly grow a lucrative professional network. From podcast placements to speak engagements, go-to-market strategies to investor relations, and media kits to press releases, the podcast collective brings a level of professionalism and deep industry expertise that can only be achieved by spending decades in the trenches. If you are a startup founder, business executive, emerging thought leader, or simply a savvy operator that understands the power of authentic media, learn more at podcastcollective.io and feel free to book a 30-minute strategy session with yours truly. Traditional media is dying on the vine. Podcasts are rising quickly to fill the void. Do not miss the boat. That's podcastcollective.io. Is it too late? Are they chasing the uh you know the shock factor that so many other brands have leveraged over the past you know three to five years? Is it going to be effective? Is it true? I don't know. What do you guys think?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Especially since I'm so deep into CrossFit, I can't wait to hear what Alex thinks about it. But I mean, I do think a lot, you know, you know, I'm still such a fan of CrossFit and the methodology. And I really do think, especially in these days of, you know, still getting, you know, so many questions from people about like, I want to start strength training. I'm middle-aged. I want to start strength training. And still, to me, the best recommendation for people who actually want to strength train and actually get strong is go to your local CrossFit. They're everywhere. There's one in every town. And, you know, their coaches are probably trained in actual lifting and programming, but they're still, they really are suffering from, you know, a lot of people. I still meet so many people who are like, oh yeah, I used to CrossFit, but then I hurt my shoulder, or I used to CrossFit and I do this, or I want to do something else. Um, so I still think they they have some real brand challenges out there. And people seem to have a strong feeling one way or the other, like it's either CrossFits for them or it's not for them, and there's no middle ground. I think they're hopefully trying to capture back, though, some of this longevity audience. I mean, to me, that's who they're going after, or these people who are realizing that, you know, toxic cardio and calorie restriction is not gonna get them to be 90 and feeling good, and maybe trying to grab back some of those people. I mean, I think they have to do something like this. It feels like a bit of a rebranding of CrossFit Health, which was never a great brand in and of itself, or maybe that's a side project they're still doing. I don't know. I don't know if it's gonna work. What do you guys think? Well, I'm always rooting for them.

Yeah, I I um uh I looked at the comments on the CrossFit site, and there weren't that many when I looked, but one CrossFitter said there is zero evidence that the CrossFit methodology is the most efficacious to prevent or treat chronic disease. And he said, I'm saying that from the point of view of somebody who likes best and promotes the kind of training promoted by CrossFit. Um that's pretty pointed. Yeah, I I I feel like I don't know, CrossFit. Uh, you know, it's it's it's still a force to be reckoned with, but but I think it's it's it's not gonna, I don't think it's gonna, you know, return to the heights that it was at. Um, I think strength training is being done in a lot of other places now, and and I think CrossFit is intimidating. It's always it is and always will be intimidating to a lot of people.

So yeah, I agree. Eric, what do you think?

Oh, I got thoughts. Uh you know, I've I've been following CrossFit forever, like you, Julia. I mean, you guys got in before I did, but I was in pretty early. And you know, I actually went to your guys' gym back in 09 and weightlifting Wednesdays with Kelly in the outdoor spot. And um, so I've I've just seen it evolve, and it attracted me at the time because I still, you know, I was classifying myself as an athlete. I was competitive, I wanted something edgy and cool and um and hard, right? It was really hard. Like some of the first workouts I did I was throwing up and I loved it, right? And I loved it. And I think that was also part of the the initial phase of CrossFit. It was like, yeah, this is hard. Come on, if you want it, let's go, right? And and then it started morphing, and you know, a lot of people in that that edginess started to get lost. And now, you know, I I just I've talked to their CEO, I think last year on my podcast, and I I said I'm like, Can we just stop saying that CrossFit is for everybody because it's an advanced training modality? I believe that to be true. I I've just seen it. Like, you don't just get off the kile channel. I don't think you should just start, you should start personal training before you get into CrossFit. Like there's on a special on-ramping, or at least can we acknowledge that that's true and say that, hey, we should we should have a beginner class and you have to get through it before you can get into the main classes. Like there's just a lot of things that need to be done better. So, and do you get injured? Well, I only got injured once, but it kept moving around my body, like everywhere, you know, it was it was always in a different spot when I woke up, you know, a couple days later. So, yeah, you if you just have to be honest, like it's really hard, it's not actually for everybody, but everybody can do it if you do it at the right pace, right? And but this is typical CrossFit, is like they come out with a very bold statement, you know, kind of an FU to the rest of the industry. And you know, that's kind of what made them great as well. So I'm conflicting on the whole thing, uh, but it's fun to talk about, which they've done well. Like people are talking about again. Right, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's it's bringing them up to the fore. And they're using a lot of buzzwords that are just so, you know, big this, and you know, anytime you want to, you know, sound like you're, you know, I don't I don't even know what what vibe you're going for, but it's big pharma and big fitness and big this, right? It's sort of how you you capture people's attention with those adding big to the front of anything makes it controversial. And so, but yeah, I mean, I agree. I think it's I I have, I think I've told you this before, Eric, but I think I have one of my secret skills is I'm a CrossFit identifier, and I can be in a cocktail party and talk to someone, and I can tell whether they are a CrossFit person or not. There's just a certain kind of person who's gonna do well and succeed and like it, and part of it's competitiveness and part of it is prior athletic experience, and those kind of people can you know survive and thrive in CrossFit. And I agree with Alex, it's just not for everyone.

It's not for everyone. Um that's okay.

That's okay.

Yeah, that's okay.

Pilates isn't for everyone.

That's I've never done that. No, none of it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, these are all tools, you know, tools that we we use to maintain our fitness and and you know well-being, and and you know, the toolbox has a lot of tools in it, and different different jobs require different tools, different people require different tools, and you know, different periods of your life, different, you know, ages. It's not one size fits all. And so I mean, that's the challenge with, you know, we're talking about boutiques, and you know, they're limited in terms of of what they offer, and I think the customer, the fitness customer wants to use a lot of different tools, even more so now than ever before.

Yeah.

Here's what I'll say to your point to your right now on CrossFit is that to your I I would do the same thing, Julia. If someone said, Hey, I want to get strong, I want to learn how to lift, like legitimately learn how to lift, I would send them to a CrossFit gym. I would not send them to my local gym that I go to now. I can lift there because I was taught how to lift, right? And I had enough repetitions where I can do it. But I I would look around, like circling back earlier, is like it's so hard not to coach people on how to properly lift. So if you really want to get strong, you want to lift and you're willing to put in some work and maybe suck it up for a while and realize that you know nothing for a good period of time, then yeah, I think a CrossFit gym I would recommend it a thousand percent. And you know, my wife still does CrossFit every week, twice, twice a week. And it's been 12 years, 20 years, 13 years, you know. So um and she's she's she's still doing it. So yeah.

I will say one last thing on CrossFit though that I did think was after that disastrous CrossFit Games last year, they seemed to pull off a CrossFit Games that was just tidy and drama-free. And, you know, they still gave out big checks, which I always give them props for, for you know, giving out a lot of money and equal money to men and women. So I felt relieved for them after that disastrous 2024 situation that it just seemed like it was just worked like a hitch without a hitch. It was great.

Awesome. That is good to hear. Well, yeah, that wraps up another one. Any closing thoughts?

Well, I just want to put another plug out there to Garmin to sponsor us because we we love we love you, Garmin. We're fans.

At least get Alex a watch.

Alex needs a Garmin, he needs a watch.

I have a 50-year-old watch, and it's so simple and easy that you to tell time because that's kind of what he's what he needs to do, right? And it gives me a date and uh yeah, and if um the the CEO of Peloton's listening listening, talk to Juliet about a strength program.

Yeah, that's a great idea. And I, you know, I guess in my final thoughts, I would just say that uh, you know, we talk about there's no reason to wait for you know a presidential fitness test or a board, you know. Just you know, and I talked to Great Cook yesterday and learned a lot about stuff, and that'll publish fairly soon on here. But you know, just go find out if your local K37 has a physical education program and offer an hour a week. Like you, you we can we don't need to wait for all this stuff. And I think that's something that the industry is so well suited for. And you know, we we scream for uh our spot at the table, but we can just do it locally, and that's not it's not the way it's in fact.

I love that, Eric. I love that. I love it.

Yeah, I think that that's about it. That's the call to action, I guess. So, Juliet, Alex, thank you guys so much. Uh, it's always a pleasure, and um, yeah, thank everyone for listening. Thanks, Eric.

It's fun to see you guys. Thanks, Eric.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minute. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it. We want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more or get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the future of fitness. Have a great day.