Andrew Sugerman - 1.8 Million Athletes, 2 Million Pounds of Equipment: Centr's Hyrox Partnership

Hey friends, welcome to the Future of Fitness, a top-rated fitness and wellness industry podcast for over five years and running. I'm your host, Eric Malzone, and I have the honor of talking to entrepreneurs, innovators, and cutting-edge technology experts within the extremely fast-paced industries of fitness, wellness, and health sciences. If you like the show, we'd love it if you took three minutes of your day to leave us a nice supporter review wherever you consume your podcast. If you're interested in staying up to date with the future of fitness, go to futurofitness.co to subscribe and get weekly summaries dropped into your inbox. Now onto the show. One theme keeps coming up. The right technology can make or break your business. That's why I'm thrilled to introduce our new presenting sponsor, Perfect Gym. Perfect Gym isn't just another gym management system. They are part of the Sport Alliance Group, Europe's leading fitness software company that has officially entered the US market. Now, I've seen this movie before, but here's the difference. They've opened up a US headquarters in Boston because they understand that the American market deserves dedicated, localized support. After digging into the platform, one benefit especially stood out. They are simplifying the nightmare that keeps business owners up at night migrations. These guys were able to migrate one mega client with more than 250 locations in six different countries in just 20 days. Between two payment runs, no disrupting operations, no member loss, one seamless operation that simply works. Now, if you have ever switched platforms, you know how terrifying that process can be and how truly impressive that feat is. At a high level, here's their secret thoughts. They give the power back to the operator. Instead of forcing you into their closed ecosystem, their Perfect Gym Marketplace connects with over 120 integration partners. So want to use your own app, your preferred payment processor, ClassPass for booking? No problem. Whether you're running a single studio or managing a multi-location enterprise, Perfect Gym was built from the ground up for multi-club operations. They've invested a ton into this platform, and now they're bringing that European engineering excellence to America. The migration experts have arrived. Check out perfectgym.com where enterprise level sophistication meets operator freedom. All right, here we go. Mr. Andrew Sugerman. Welcome back to the future of fitness, my friend. How are you doing?

I'm doing great, Eric. It's been a while. It's been a beat.

It's been a minute, two and a half years since we published uh our last interview, and you and I were just talking. That's freaking wild. It was a much different time in October of 2023 than it is now. And I think we're all grateful that those days are kind of behind us.

We are. We are. That post-pandemic um moment. Yeah. I'm we're glad that's gone.

Yeah. Well, we're going to talk about the future and what you guys have now. And it's it's really exciting. I mean, the partnership with Center and High Rocks has been an absolute rocket ship. And, you know, there's been, we'll talk about some of the pivots you've had over the last two and a half years to really um leverage this opportunity. But I also want to discuss in depth what the opportunities are for the industry. As you were saying, you're educating me previously, like this similar to my CrossFit days, too, is like fitness is a competition. It's become a sport. And there's huge opportunities for operators, brands, all of that to partner and get into this ecosystem. And even just consumers, people who want to get fitter and want to understand like where High Rocks is and why it's such a strong community and why it's getting people so fit and healthy. So a lot of exciting things to cover here. But maybe we can start with this. Uh, Andrew is, you know, since our recording date of October publishing date of October 21st, 2023, you've been a busy man. There's been some changes and pivots within your business. Maybe guess up to date what's happened with Center since then.

Yeah, absolutely. Gosh, you know, it feels like that was yesterday, then it also feels like that was a lifetime ago. Yeah. Um when we spoke back in 2023, it was really at that time built around being a wellness platform that served a holistic set of needs for users from nutrition to mental well-being to fitness. We saw a ton of value in that experientially. But over the last two, two and a half years, we found an additional element, which was really motivation, what drives people to care. And the growth of the evolution of fitness moving towards competition and fitness as a sport. We saw that early trend in 22 with high rocks and what we saw as something that looked really, really compelling but nascent. And decided we wanted to tap into that because it really hit the mark on motivation. And it was unlike CrossFit, it was really geared towards everybody. Wasn't you didn't need to be somebody that could like lift X pounds over your head or do some insane movement. It was really made to be movements that are natural, body movements, pushing, pulling, running, things that the human body was designed for and therefore made it accessible to everyone. And that fit our ethos in in a lot of ways. And so the evolution of fitness to sport, and then sport to high rocks, and then high rocks to culture, right? It was perfect. That that that segue.

Yeah, and it's how did it start with you guys and high rocks? So you you uh you bought an equipment manufacturer, you acquired, right? And then you started a kind of a commercial relationship there, but it sprouted into like branding and all kinds of different things. Tell talk about how that's actually emerged.

Yeah, so so I went to, I remember the first HyROX event I went to was in 2023, um, before our last conversation. And it was in Anaheim, and I walked in and so I've done personally, I've done two half Ironmans, I've done marathons and half marathons. So I know what mass participation sports feel like when you're competing and when you're spectating. So I went to this one in Anaheim, and it was unlike anything I'd seen or experienced. It was it was a um, there was like an energy in a buzz, both with spectators and with athletes, that was almost like a cult, like in the best of ways. I was like, I've never heard of this thing before. There's like whatever it was, two or three thousand people there. Like, I've got to learn more. And so I did and ended up having a conversation with Douglas Fremen and Christian, um, the CEO and founder. And we discussed what were ways that we, using our experience in designing equipment, could custom design equipment for a sport. So it wasn't just let's go make a kettlebell or let's go make a you know, how do we look at how athletes are using these products? And then how do we custom design products in partnership with HIROX that are custom built for their athletes and to elevate the sport? And that's what we did. And so we spent a year doing that, designing it and launching all those products in competition in 2024. Um, and then from there, uh making it accessible to gyms, clubs, and studios to train with the equipment that's used in the sport, but now use it as like a flywheel where a sport that's measured in minutes and seconds, performance matters. So use the products that are used in the sport to train and then it creates that that flywheel and then give people the opportunity to do it at home as well. And so we've been rolling this out now. I think we've delivered more than two million pounds of product to hire competitions around the world. There'll probably be 1.5 to 1.8 million athletes touching our products in competition this year. And it just it just feeds itself into naturally into the gyms, clubs, and studios where all of these, you know, millions of people are within the train.

Yeah. It it is amazing. I mean, I saw you in person at the first outdoor high rocks in the United States in New York City. And it was incredible. I mean, it was what, 5,000 participants? I think it sold out in less than 24 hours. Um, really cool vibe. Definitely brought me the feeling of like a CrossFit event, you know, a big like a CrossFit regional event or something like that. Kind of brought me back to those feelings. And you're kind of walking me through the equipment, like uh very much like a proud father. You were showing me like how the differences are, like some of the innovations you've had on like what I would call, you know, things that have been around forever, like a bumper plate. It's been around forever, right? Or sled and how you changed it. You kind of looked at it through almost like a first principles lens. And you changed it. Maybe get some examples because I thought that was that was I was intrigued. I was having a good time when you were explaining all.

Yeah. Uh so one of the things we did is we looked at we looked at the use of the original equipment in competition. And we also looked at photography and video so we could understand where things were coming up short, where there were opportunities. So, for example, on the kettlebells, we were, we watched and saw that using the round Olympic style kettlebells, when people were doing the farmer's carry, they were pounding their uh quads and knees with these things that were just bouncing like really pretty violently off their legs. And we felt that in order to streamline that particular movement, but also make products that could be used with other movements in the gym, that we could elongate and change that shape and did a lot of testing and sampling to find how to fit two needs, one in competition, one in the gym. And so we ended up with this eight, eight-sided octo kettlebell that really functions in a multi-purpose way, but enables that particular event, the farmer's carry, to shave seconds off because it's a more efficient, um, it's a more efficient run. And, you know, it's that's station number um six. So you you got you still have two more to go. So you don't want to destroy your legs uh before the final quarter of the race. So that's an example. Um on the um on the sleds, we we saw people slip off the the poles as they were pushing uh repeatedly, uh, because they're like dripping in sweat and and their hands are wet, their arms are wet, their heads, uh, there's a lot of sweat on their head. So we we decided that we'd put knurling onto the pole bars. So that enabled there to be enough friction without it being too much uh that would you know thrash your hands. And at the same time, we found that people were lining up at the at the at the poles in different levels where they'd been training. And so we decided to put marker lines onto the poles in the nurling so that you knew when you got up to the sled, you knew where to put your hands based on where you'd been training. And so it was like a natural marker place. And so those are those are examples. We've done other things on each each of each of the individual products. And I think the newest one that we did was working with with the high rocks uh sports team was building a friction rate between the sled skis and the sled turf that would ensure between sled pull and sled push, a very consistent lane-to-lane, competition to competition, climate to climate friction rate so that all athletes were experiencing the same thing. And so we rolled out this new turf last summer. It's now been deployed across the entire global network. Um, and all the competitions are using that. And so we know mathematically the friction rates because we test them at each competition. Um, there's an exact number that is hit lane to lane.

That's incredible, man. It really is. I mean, I look at obviously there's a lot of um direct comparisons you can make to what Rogue did in CrossFit and the mergence of that sport and what you guys are doing in HyROCs, right? Like you really focused on one growing community and you're servicing them really well. You have brand recognition, you're making partnerships, like you're just entrenched in that in that entire uh ecosystem. And maybe you could explain a little bit more too, like what are all the legs of this partnership? Like you guys have um, you know, the equipment, you work with uh, you know, gyms who want to be high rocks affiliates. There's a tremendous opportunity there for operators. Uh, you also have your technology stacks. If you have the app, and let's not forget, you still have Chris Hemsworth working with him, that that guy. Uh so there's a lot, there's a lot going on. Maybe explain how how all these things kind of trickle down in in different areas.

Yeah, absolutely. See for us, the idea is we're not an app and we're not simply providing equipment. We are building to what you said earlier, an ecosystem that powers performance fitness. Uh we believe that people have a goal. And that goal, we we want to have the right tools, the right environment, the right community that enables people to go after and realize whatever that goal is. And as I mentioned earlier, IROX is not for elite, it is for elite athletes, but it's also for everyone. And so we want to make sure we enable there to be an on-ramp for everyone. If you're a if you're an elite athlete and you want to shave two seconds off your time, okay, we want to help that be a reality. If you're somebody that's like, I just want to get into this and be a part of it, we provide that. And so that ecosystem is digital coaching and programming. We've now built out a large number of on-ramps into the world of fitness racing and and performance fitness. And that training is for race, and that training is just for strength, strength, and endurance building in order to prepare for race. We've got products and solutions we've made for the home. We've obviously probably powered more than two or three thousand gyms in the last 12 months with new products that allow them to train for racing inside the gym club studio facility, where we with high rocks are beginning to build out environments. So it's now an experiential execution where it's the combination of equipment with environment, both floor, walls, structural with programming that will include screens that have stations. So it's circuit training inside that box, all the way through to community and enabling that community in gym, enabling that community at race. Um, and so that centers taking a much more proactive role in how to foster and build community. We're working closely with a number of the Elite 15 athletes in in reinforcing that, as well as ambassadors and sponsors across across the broader race circuit and race ecosystem.

Awesome. Padre, like at the gym operator level, like what types of gyms are um getting involved and participating in like the affiliate program and the training? Is it like health club chains? Is it uh independent, you know, um strength and conditioning? Is it boutiques like F 45? Like who's who's mostly getting into this?

Yes. So it's it's really every everything you just said are the clubs, uh, gym studios that we've seen over the last 12 to 18 months uh getting into this. And I think for the operators, they've understand that fitness is evolving and that this notion that it's really brilliant what Hyrox figured out was probably a hundred plus million people go to the gym every day, but they never equated going to the gym as being an athlete or having a sport. And it and all of a sudden they're like, hey, did you know that you are an athlete and this is your sport? And you have a you have a playing field that you can compete on. And and so out of nowhere, gym operators all of a sudden had literally the practice field for scrimmaging for a sport that didn't exist five years earlier, which drives acquisition, it drives retention, it drives community, it drives this sort of cyclical reality. Competitions in some cities are every year, sometimes they're every six months in that big city like London. Uh and so gyms are seeing that value now. And for us, it's making sure we're providing the ecosystem to power that. And so our customer is the athlete, but our customer is also the gym, the club, and the studio. How do we help them be as successful as possible in their pursuits?

So uh walk me through this, Andrew. If I'm like uh, okay, Eric's strength and conditioning here in Whitefish, Montana, right?

Just been I heard it's great. Yeah, it's amazing.

It's the best topic. Couldn't get can't get any better. The if I want to transition and get into this this high rocks model and start um, you know, pulling from in and collaborating with it, what what does that take? Is there like obviously there's probably some equipment changes, change the facility, maybe, maybe not. I don't know. Yeah. So what what are all the steps that I would need to be fully leveraging this?

So so I would recommend um that we bring in the official sort of competition equipment so that people are training with what they'll be using in the actual event. As as we discussed earlier, the products are in a similar category, right? You could say that a car is a car. So if you're just gonna buy a car, then just buy a car. You know, if you're gonna buy a kettlebell, you know, is it just a kettlebell? In our view, they're not. That that the things that we made for high rocks have been purposefully designed to elevate performance. And so if you're an athlete competing and you've been training for three months or six months, the feel of the products that you're gonna use on game day ideally feel like what you've been training with. You don't get, you don't get out there and you go to push the sled and you're like, oh my God, this doesn't feel the same as what I've just been training against. Or I've been uh I've been doing wall ball squats. And why does this all of a sudden feel like a foot or two taller than what I've been training against? So it's how to replicate game day as much as possible. So that would be equipment, that would be things like the turf matching that friction rate and the environment. We try to make as much like the environment of the high rocks ethos as possible so that brand feel, that brand affiliation that they get excited by, they can be excited by not just when they go to the race, but they can be excited by the whole time. Uh, right. That's that's the thing that they're training for. That's the affiliation that they're excited by. And it's their sort of their benchmark to be like, okay, I am fit because I'm doing this. And now I've got a proof point against it that I can try and beat in my next benchmark. And so all of that would be elements that I would look to bring to bear. And then from a programming standpoint, it'd be having your instructors or coaches trained to deliver um high ROX training programs. Uh, HIROX offers coaching certificates for training the sort of approved HYROX methodology on safe but effective training programs. And then uh there's a software solution that sits in the back end that if it's a gym owner as yourself such as yourself would want to deploy it, you can run those programs directly to two to four to six screens that have uh essentially station-based circuits where people know where to go and what to do next. We have one instructor sort of guiding, guiding the room. Wow.

Wow.

Is it uh it's very turnkey in sort of all the all the pieces.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it takes um probably takes a little bit of time and commitment to get it fully up and running, but it sounds like I mean Hirox isn't going anywhere. Maybe we talk about that. Like, talk about the growth here and the potential market size still. I mean, it's it's it's substantial, dude. It blows my mind.

Substantial. It's substantial. It's it was back in 23. I think the prior year they had 150,000 athletes. This year, uh, I believe that number will be close to 1.5 to 1.8 million athletes. I believe that number will likely grow to close to 3 million athletes in 2027. The number of race days has exploded. I believe it'll be over 300 this year. So it's just the magnitude. You had mentioned New York when we when we last got together there, a thousand athletes. They're gonna run New York this year. I believe it's gonna go for eight days, and they'll be close to 40,000 athletes. And so that reality is what they're seeing all across the world. The events are doubling or tripling in size, they're still selling out in record time, and the demand for spaces is just enormous. So IROX has been rolling out and growing as fast as possible, thus, the 2 million pounds of products we've shipped all over the world, the power races. And we see it literally everywhere. Like it's in South Africa, it's in China, it's in um, it's in Mexico. I was down in a competition in Mexico City. It was enormous. So it's it's a global phenomenon. It's not a US or UK one. And it's it it's growing at such a rate that that it's not a passing. Fad, it's sort of entrenched itself into being a sport that people, I think they surveyed people coming out of the race. 95% of athletes wanted to compete again to try and beat what they just did. And this is like very exhausted. And like it's like, yeah, yeah, I want to go again. I got I think I can do better. Right. So, and and it's one of the things that's driving IROC's tours. I know this is out in the news, like they're working to getting um an Olympic spot for IROCs in the 2032 Brisbane Games. It's it's all reinforcing this as a sport. It's uh it's exciting because it means the runway is long. And I think for gyms, clubs, and studios, that's what they want to know. Like, how long's the runway? Should I be leaning into this and should I be making investments? And um, I would say that at this point, given the size, unlike marathon running and triathlon training, almost 100% of these people are going to be training in a gym. This is literally a sport that is driving people to train in a gym. And so it creates this flywheel where they push, or like high rox pushes them to a gym. The gym trains them for them to come back to the event, they go back to the gym again. So it's a very effective flywheel of engagement to help everyone achieve their goals.

Well, you know, if um ski mountaineering can make an exhibition in the Winter Olympics, I think HyROX has a pretty good chance, man. I don't know if you watch any of that stuff, but it is once again. And break dancing and break dancing and breakdancing. Yeah. Well, you know, um, you know, I I hate to draw another comparison across it, but just what I knew, right? So I opened my affiliate in 08 in Seoul in 2017. I saw kind of the critical days of growth. And one of the things I saw, um, which I don't know if people really recognize or not, was like this secondary market that evolved around the growth of this mass participation sport. So what I'm talking about is like obviously brands, like rebock shoes. Reebok wouldn't be where it is now if it wasn't for that, right? Yeah. Or you know, what else? Like affiliate coaching, so business coaches who came in specifically for CrossFit to help them get their gyms up and running and do it properly and get their systems in place. And there was individualized coaching. So people started doing remote coaching for athletes who people really want to get serious about it. You know, name it, supplements and and everything. Like it just produced this huge economy around it. And that's obviously happening again with high rocks. And so when you look at all that, like maybe you talk to like other brands or companies that are like, oh, they keep looking at it, but maybe they're keeping it at arm's length. Like, how much opportunity overall are you seeing this total ecosystem? And maybe a secondary question is like, do you see any potential opportunities for expansion for center into other areas of the ecosystem as well?

Yeah, I mean, I can speak through the center lens. Obviously, IROFs would be way more intimate on this than I would be. But you know, I I I view that iROFs as an event company in a culture driver is uh very attractive to brands. I mean, if at the end of the day, community is what drives brands. Companies can hope that they create a brand, but it's the community embracing it that actually creates the brand. Um, and and so you go to these events. I think New York, if they have 40,000 athletes, they'll probably be at least 40 to 50,000 spectators. We're looking at like 100,000 humans at this event. That's massive. That's a massive, that's a huge event. And so the attractiveness for brands to be affiliated with that and be a part of that, and it's healthy. It's not something that's bad for you. It's something that's actually good for you and healthy and camaraderie and teamwork and and and everyone coming together. So I think that for brands that are in the wellness category, certainly there's a lot of applicability, but I can see how that extends beyond that. Um, I was I was down in Mexico City and I saw brand activations with Ford. Ford had pickup trucks and uh Broncos, and essentially there was an activation where uh people were pulling, instead of a sled, they were pulling a pickup truck. Um, and so so I think that everyone's kind of getting in on the lifestyle and the active and the and sort of that component of it in such a positive way. And I think that'll that'll only grow in the in the in the months and and years to come. The for us in terms of like other categories, I believe in sticking with what we do really well and getting better at it. And so I think we've been really focused on how do we partner with HIROX on making sure the equipment that's being made, not just for competition, but for training, is as effective as possible in delivering to the brand's standards, both ours and theirs. And so I think in the next few months and onward, we'll constantly be coming up with new product innovations that we'll put out into the marketplace that will be a part of our um uh our perform series or our high rocks um uh training line uh that will help athletes have all the tools they need to show up.

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I have personally, like whether I do it on my own or I do a center. The engagement rate at gyms that are training for higher rocks is just high. It just is. Like we've seen it, like classes are are oversold. The the the sort of like it's like you're on a team, you don't want to let your team down, you're you're you're showing up together, all of that. And so um we've hicked tires on it, but it's such a different operating business than what we're doing with with uh you know building, supplying, distributing, you know, millions of products all over the planet. But it's an interesting opportunity and and one that um whether, as I said, whether it's the company or maybe I get involved in it like as a as a side thing, uh I I want to participate because I think it's a really cool way for uh the brands to come to life.

Yeah. Well, you let me know.

Yeah, you you can we'll do it up in Montana.

Yeah, that's a great place to start. A huge population. Yeah, it's it what I was wondering too, like generationally, uh, you know, you look at um younger generations, so 35 and younger, and they're so health focused. It's I mean, it's incredible to see, you know, like they're making non-alcoholic beers, they're in the gym all the time. I mean, the gym I go to, it's just a lot of youth. Like, uh, it's and it's also you know what? And they're training legitimately. Like they're at the squat racks, right? They're they're using the sleds, they're doing all these things, like they're doing functional training, which is really cool to see. Is that something you've noticed within your ecosystem too? Is like this younger generation is very powerfully coming into it, or are they slow to take? Or what what are you seeing in that that aspect of it?

Yeah, so I think that's spot on. I think that Gen Z, young millennial are approaching wellness through an even more disciplined lens, I think, than Gen X and an older millennial. That alcohol is to consumption is definitely lower. Um, I think this notion of competition and community is and and sort of the the move towards IRL experiences is massive. It could be a byproduct of the pandemic, but the IRL community aspect is is real. And so we see that across the board. And we just in the last uh month partnered with HiROPS in launching YoungStars in Amsterdam. So YoungStars is for children athletes aged eight to, I think it's 13 and 13 or 14. And it is uh age-appropriate competition events and equipment, but similar, it's a similar circuit approach where kids are competing. And once again, it's a sport. So it's it's giving kids a field in order to participate in a strength and endurance competition that's age appropriate for them. And that competition sold out, 2,000 children competed. Um, you know, it's super, super cute. They, the finish line, they run through a star at the end. It's it's like a video game. And uh and they're they're rolling out another, the next one is in London, I believe, in March. And so as that continues to deploy, it's it's extending high rocks as a sport from what I think started in 30 to 45 year olds. That's broadened down into the 20-year-olds. And even I competed. So it went up into the, well, I won't even talk about what age I am, but went to that, went to that age. You look great.

You look great, Andrew.

Yeah. Thanks. And now it's going down into the eight-year-old category. So it's it's really making itself truly accessible to all levels, all ages. And I think that's consistent with the trends that I think match Alpha Gen, Gen Z, and Millennial.

Yeah.

And that's such a great long-term strategy, right? You get them young, get them involved.

Yeah. And for parents that train, it's a kind of an interesting opportunity for Gyms Club studios, where one of the challenges for parents or kids is okay, like what do I do with my eight-year-old or my nine-year-old, my 10-year-old? I want to go to the gym. Right? Do I need to find somebody to stay with them? Or how does that work? Now you both can go to the gym. You can have a class going for kids, but for young stars, you have a class going for adults. The parent, both parent and child are literally training for the exact same sport. That's pretty cool. Right. So now that you're creating a commonality that exists between the two of them, uh, it's a really like a new monetization opportunity for gyms, clubs, and studios.

Yeah. Yeah. It's great. And yeah, I do believe that there is um we're starting to see a technological backlash. Like people are just too, there's too much tech in people's lives. So getting through to something like this where it's a real experience, something can look forward to. It's training with other people, you know, physically touching things. Like I think, especially in the younger generation, this is stuff I read, right? Um, but it does seem to be very real. Like they're starting to see it.

Yeah.

And that's why, like, even for our app side of our business, we've tried to make it more of a tool and almost like a coach as opposed to an app for an app's sake. Because everyone, there's so many apps and so many. It's like, how is our solution a part of this ecosystem? So it's sort of training in the gym. This is what I'm doing. How do I have support tools that enable me to do stuff on my own if I want to, in addition to what I'm doing in the class? Like when we rolled out the Red Bull 100 program with Jake Gearden, which you know, one of the Elite 15 athletes, and we did this in partnership with Red Bull. You know, Red Bull had this Red Bull 100 where you had to do 100 wall ball squats unbroken. I don't know if you like that's that's not easy. That's a very difficult, that's a very difficult endeavor. And so, and when you cross the finish line, if you did that, you would get a Red Bull 100 patch. And so we wanted to create a program that was a side program that said, okay, look, if you're training, great. But if you also want to train to be able to do this and, you know, this one piece, we're gonna create a side program that would be a coached program that helps you train to be able to do that goal. And um, and and it's great. It's it's it's really just focused on training for one of the most painful, right? Station eight, you're at the end of the race, you're exhausted, and now you need to do a hundred wall ball squats unbroken, but this will train you for it. And I think that's a perfect example of the ecosystem we're looking to build. Like, how do we support people on whatever their goal is and make sure you have the tools to do it?

There you go. Training for Masochist. That's great. You offer that too.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can just fight yourself in the face, you know, a hundred times.

Yeah, I was uh doing uh training at like an athlete camp for OPEX back in the day, and that was one of the things we had was max wall balls. Uh many as you can do, unbroken, right? And I was like asking, like, well, how do like how do you how do you know when to stop? Like what happens? They're like, oh, you'll know. You'll know. You just completely give out and everything stops working. But there's always like one more rep that you can get, right? There's always one more. Um until oh God, geez, I can't believe you just brought that up. Just brought me some trauma back in my head.

Yeah, right. You're you're I see you shaking a little bit.

It's awful. That's terrible. So I'm done with it.

After this podcast, you're gonna call a therapist. You'd be like, yeah, we gotta talk.

So we're uh as we record this, Andrew, it's we're getting into event season for the industry, right? We got HFA, got FIBO, we got Connected, we got Athletech, we got beyond everything. They're all happening, right? It's it's starting again um in the cycle. So I know you guys are gonna be present at some of those events, but maybe give us some insights into what you'll be doing there. Um, you know, what people can hope to get if they if they swing by and check out what you guys are doing.

Yeah. So we'll be present at Connected, we'll be present at HFA, we'll be present at FIBO for HFA and FIBO. We'll be introducing a number of new products as a part of this sort of holistic training platform that will include as a part of our perform series, it'll include a new dual-action air bike that will be coming out, um, as well as a rower and a skier will be part of that broader system. And so inside our HyROX training center, right? So that's what they're called in HIROX training center X. There'll be the opportunity for people to come and see all of those tools inside that box. And we'll be setting up an HTC in HFA. It's a lot of acronyms. We'll be setting up a HyROX training club at HFA. We'll be setting another one up at FIBO so potential gym club studio owners can see what a version of that could look like and how the different pieces of equipment play a role in that. And then beyond that, we're we're expanding expanding our training line with HyROX with new free weight um pieces, new hybrid training elements. Uh, we'll be introducing a motorized, uh commercial motorized tread that's an extension of what we already launched last year that is a beautiful motorized treadmill that could sit inside an HTC also.

I think that's the one challenge for the training, right? Is there's so much running in high rocks. How do you um you have to gel a mm? Yeah. I mean it's it's it's I don't know what 30, 40% of it maybe is is running.

I would say probably 50.

Yeah.

Actually, time-wise, probably even more than 50. Uh it's it's it's a lot. It's a lot. And so I think it for gyms, clubs, and studios that are in environments like I'm like sitting in the cold here on the East Coast is challenging. And so having a treadmill solution inside the gym where you can hide, you can cross-train from treadmill to you know, strength to endurance, strength to endurance is important. And so we have a non-motorized tread, curved tread that has been available for the last year and a half to be one of the solutions. By having a motorized tread, we'll now have two options that both are amazing commercial grade, but there's preferences for running surface and running style. You can choose between motorized and non-motorized.

Awesome. And the uh the ski, the rower, and the bike ergs, are those how do you so how are you guys differentiating on those? Like what are some of the big ones? Because you know, there's there's assault's been around for a while, C2's been around for a little while. You come into this with some pretty established players, but obviously I would presume that there's some specificity to Hyrocks.

Um, or or yeah, so where do you think you're so the yeah, so for the Stierg and Rowerg, those those are being rolled out as center products, not as a part of Pyrox. Um and um and so our perform series is sort of our high-end commercial collection. We're bringing certain design modifications that will help with either the use or the wear and tear for those pieces of equipment, uh, which is very important inside a commercial environment that the wear and tear, especially for cord-based pieces of equipment, are as battle-tested as possible. Those people will see when they come come by the booth at HFA or FIBO. I don't want to give too much away. And there's a number of things that we're working on um over the coming months on increased modifications and industrial design improvements to those pieces of equipment.

Gotcha. Very cool. Before I kind of get to the final question, Sierra, I will I would like to zoom back a little bit because you've you've been um, I mean, you're with Disney for a long time. You've worked in other industries, you come into this one. And uh, you know, I think 2026 is gonna be a very definitive year for this industry. Like we're seeing mass consolidation, um, a lot of PE money coming in. So, as like, you know, executive, entrepreneur, and business mind, like how are you feeling about our industry right now overall? Um, and what what kind of projections would you say um in 2026 that could happen? Um, I I I I'm tired of talking about artificial intelligence, but it's obviously gonna have an impact on everything we do. Yeah. But uh there's just a lot going over the world. This and GLP ones and all kinds of stuff, right? Everything's converging, mass amounts of money. Um, I think it's a very exciting time to be here. So, you know, what are you what are you projecting for this year?

So I I believe that this idea of fitness as sport and that you can be healthy in training and become an athlete at the same time. I think that trend is going to grow continually and rapidly. Two years ago in America, probably very few people had heard of Hyrux. Now, I'd say that number's higher, but it's still not everyone. I think within 12 to 24 months, it'll be close to everyone. And so that trend is alive and well. And I think that will influence gyms, clubs, and studios as well as the entire concept of fitness and sport and competitions. I think that wellness and longevity, that that will continue. Uh everything geared around um GLP1s, which then opened up the world to peptides in general, that's like just explosive as a category. I think the current administration's sort of guardrails or reduced guardrails is, I think, gonna change, I think, a lot of the people's perspectives on that sort of peptide wellness category. I believe that the consolidation that you referenced, that's gonna continue in 26, I think, into and into 27. I think that that you'll probably see some players fall out. I think you'll see some players join, join uh hands and become bigger and stronger. I mean, we just saw that announcement with eGym turning itself into a massive, massive, massive player in the space. I think that you'll see more of that happening in the next 24 months as just a sort of byproduct of how to gain mind share, build brands, all the economies of scale that would come. Uh I think AI is another big one where it's it's gonna have ramifications all over the place. It's interesting though, I I do think there's gonna still be some, I don't know if it's backlash would be a negative word, but it's I think that the consumer, when they go in the gym, there is an IRL thing, right? It's about human connection, human to human, human to coach, human to being in the class. And I think that there's gonna be a tolerance for how far technology will be allowed to play before consumers push back on it. I think I think that that as a technology it will enable a lot of things. It's just a matter of how far will that go to the actual consumer experience is I think to be to be seen.

Yeah. Yeah, really interesting, man. Yeah, I was um I MC'd the EM the EGM's annual kickoff in Munich just a few weeks ago, and I didn't expect that that announcement was gonna drop the day before. And it was uh it was pretty exciting. And I, you know, it was the the energy in the room was was very palpable. I mean $7.5 billion company. I think those are gonna those mergers are gonna continue to roll um, you know, over the next few years as well. So um last question I always ask, Andrew, is uh what what do you need help with? So people are gonna reach out, you know, are you looking for partnerships? Are you looking for talent? Obviously, clients and things like that. But what's most important to you and uh what would you like to hear from people about?

Yeah, so I guess one, we're growing, which is awesome and fun. And with that, we want to find great people that want to help us grow and expand our reach. So I would say people should look for job postings and send amazing, amazing folks our way to help us continue to bring these products and services and experiences to gyms and gym goers and consumers all over the world. That'd be one. I think the second is um, you know, as we're in our view, center is building the operating system for performance fitness. That's what we believe we are doing.

I like it.

And we we want people to experience that. So having gyms, clubs, studio owners come to a highrock's training center and see firsthand what that is. And more importantly, what the experience is to a gym goer. I believe that they'll have a much better sense for where the future of fitness is going and that they'll want to be a part of it. So come by, check it out, whether it's at a FIBO booth or an HFA booth, or just reaching out and we'll figure out one that's near you and give you the experience. Whether there's one in Montana, I'm not totally sure, but you know, we'll we'll see what's close to you.

Awesome, man. And Andrew, if uh where would you like people to go? Do you want them to reach out to you? You want a LinkedIn website?

Yeah, reach out to me, reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'll then uh either directly communicate or route you to the best person to handle. Uh yeah, it's just it's it's been a fun, crazy two and a half year journey. I can't imagine if we if we don't talk for another two and a half years, what that next conversation would be. Yeah, I can only imagine.

It's gonna be wow. Yeah, yeah.

And then you have to compete with me. You have to compete with me at a high rox.

I'll do it. Yeah, I'll do it.

Yeah, you're in?

Yeah, I'll do it. All right. Yeah, why not? Um yeah, why not? Yeah, it's been uh it's been a lot of fun, man. And it's it's great to, you know, like talked about two and a half years, that's been a long time, but we were having a distinctly different conversation back in 2023. And just to for me to benchmark, okay, what we were talking about then and what we're talking about now, and to see the growth that you guys have had. And um, you know, you you're obviously a great guy to see you being successful with your team there is is really um it's great. So it's it's a feel-good story for everyone around. And we will definitely not be another two and a half years before we record again. So I promise you that. But thank you, man. It's been an absolute pleasure. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, Andrew Sugarman. Thank you. Thanks, Eric.

Hey, wait, don't leave yet. This is your host, Eric Malzone, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future of Minutes. If you did, I'm gonna ask you to do three simple things. It takes under five minutes and it goes such a long way. We really appreciate it. Number one, please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to it, iTunes, Spotify, Castbox, whatever it may be. Number two, please leave us a favorable review. Number three, share. Put it on social media, talk about it to your friends, send it in a text message, whatever it may be. Please share this episode because we put a lot of work into it and we want to make sure that as many people are getting value out of it as possible. Lastly, if you'd like to learn more, get in touch with me, simply go to the futureoffitness.co. You can subscribe to our newsletter there, or you can simply get in touch with me as I love to hear from our listeners. So thank you so much. This is Eric Malzone, and this is the Future of Fitness. Have a great day.